[d&d4e] Puzzles in RPGs
Callan S.:
Hi Misha,
Well, with the preset solution, you can sort of measure it's difficulty in terms of the 'multiple choice's involved, the more choices, the harder it gets as the more options a player has to consider. From what you describe, there were dozens of options, perhaps even more than a hundred. Part of that difficulty (something that multiplies the difficulty) is that the options aren't explicitly presented - if you presented them with four explicit choices, that makes it alot easier. Perhaps too easy with four. Though it also removes the 'player invents their own move' factor.
Speaking of open ended solutions, there are even more options, hidden ones at that, to consider. That makes it a really hard difficulty level. Indeed I would think the difficulty is impossible to control - it could spiral to really high levels, perhaps even OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!!!!1! (sorry, bad dragon ball meme joke).
What I'd recommend is to put a choke on that difficulty by giving the players two chances to solve the situation. The first would be an open ended solution they could try. If they fail that, they get a second chance with X number of explicitly presented options (with X being perhaps just a (low?) single digit in size to keep it at the difficulty you want it). If they beat it on the open ended solution, they get alot of bonus XP or bonus treasure or something, because this is the awesome imagination challenge mix thing (though beating it on the multiple choice is good too, it's just not as hard/not engaging the difficulty of dealing with an SIS).
Well, oddly enough I like the solution I just came up with (and it's almost ironic in that I'm finding a solution I didn't think of before now).
AzaLiN:
Spike puzzle... I think the key to that puzzle is to slow things down.
Make the spikes move in real slow-like, so they have time to try 4-5 failed options before hunkering down and doing some real problem solving. They'll obviously try to open the door, or jam the mechanism star-wars style- gotta give them the chance to rule out the most obvious options early on. Otherwise, they'll die for sure- that's why timed puzzles suck sometimes... the nice thing about good puzzles is the player isn't pressured to produce a solution on the spot, they can think about it and experiment a bit, which encourages looking for the best solution instead of the fastest maybe-solution.
I'd allow them to jam the mechanism- temporarily- while they problem solve to find a way to get out in actual safety, and I'd put a big fat clue for the jamming solution which basically functions as a stop on the timer until they get a better idea. A weird mark on the ground like you said would be a good clue- it wouldn't actually provide a hint, but if you came up with the answer it would partially confirm it for the player, right?
As for the solution itself, better give the group one or more scrolls of stone to mud earlier that adventure, because the wizard might not have something like that memorized, and he may use several of the scrolls too early by being too clever with other problems earlier. If this isn't done, there's a chance that the DM is just murdering the party at this point :D
Further, the group may decide on an option that, although clever, would not work, and maybe just because of knowledge they lack about the unseen parts of the puzzle, and thereby release the mechanism to try their chosen solution. Again, there could be over 100 possible solutions to this puzzle, more if the wizard has strange spells memorized, which can lead to dozens of extra combinations! The scrolls will help out as a metagame hint- best to integrate it somehow, perhaps with the previously-solved-this-way-theme - but giving too many hints ruins the fun utterly- its the DM leading the players, and not the players being clever and brainstorming. Just be sure to emphasize that the floor is SOLID STONE.
Since they are wearing metal armor, depending on the strength of the spikes i may decree that the fighter gets pinned with everybody else hunkering between until the trap designer comes along to investigate why the trap is jammed and simply captures the party. There's no quicksaves in [most] TTRPGs, so there shouldn't be a lot of TPKs going around {though 1 or 2 deaths is fine!] In fact, assume in this case taht the party will get captured like this, because the stone to mud solution would be easy enough to overlook, and this way the party really can feel clever for overcoming the puzzle, since you 'built it for them to fail,' and therefore reward them with the trapper coming and getting ambushed because the party's fine.
Least, that's my 8am thoughts on the subject. It seems like a basically good puzzle, just too hard and killy with 1/100 working solutions- better if it was 1/10 workign solutions somehow, perhaps steal the wizards spell book and just leave scrolls. anyway, i'm napping befor ework
Daniel B:
The spike puzzle violates Ron Gilbert's "should be like a box, not a cage" rule. Meaning, if they get frustrated, well, tough luck, they're screwed.
Personally, I've found puzzles up to the level of those 7th Guest/Myst type computer games, in addition to being impossible for the GM to build and implement (and balance!) regularly, they're too slow for tabletop gaming. I've put puzzles on the level of what you might find in N64's Legend of Zelda or Banjo Kazooie (I'd give more examples but that's the limit of my experience).
For example, there was a "puzzle" I'd posted about earlier in Actual Play; the PCs were presented with a gadget that pulled a troll apart at regular intervals, making them think it was in trouble but in fact it was a trap .. later in the game the puzzle was that they needed to find a piece of equipment that the leader of a guild of Tinker Gnomes had never heard of before. The solution is somewhat obvious, and indeed my players were able to figure it out relatively quickly.
Anything less obvious and I find they tend to get frustrated quickly (even if the puzzle SEEMS really obvious to me). An example of this type is when the PCs would find just a magic gift hidden on the top of a chandelier in a run-down mansion. All they needed to do was burn a rope holding up the chandelier. The rope was out-of-reach, high above near the ceiling. To burn it, they needed to line up a continual-flame torch with a backwards telescope (to magnify the torchlight). They figured out the magnification, and saw the rope holding up the chandelier in the other room (which itself was out-of-place, as all other chandeliers were held up by metal chains) but left the door closed every time they tried, so the light couldn't fall on the rope. Needless to say it was frustrating as a GM to have them so close to the solution!
Daniel
cra2:
Personally, I love inserting the three P's (puzzles, props, and physical challenges) into my games.
I have hundreds of them.
It's a welcome 'break' from rolling a die (or flipping a card, or pleasing the gm and/or group concensus). But can't be over-used. Usually only averaging once or twice a session (and my sessions are long - 8 hrs).
example - actual blacksmith puzzles (where you try to figure out how to separate the two twisted pieces of metal).
I'll throw them at one of the players when they get manacled and tell 'em that when they can get the pieces apart, their PC is free.
It's WAAAYYY more visceral and challenging than letting karma (dice/cards/etc) decide it for you.
And you should SEE those player faces light up when they figure it out and hold the pieces up for all to see like a 7-yr old beaming, "I did it!" That player would never have remembered rolling a 17 on his "escape artist" check, but he'll never forget when he himself saved the party from the approaching ogre guards by using his noggin to escape his bonds.
Note: I still let their stats/skills influence the challenge. For example, if they rolled high, they get the easier puzzle or more hints, etc.
And, I try to either a) use challenges that involve most/all of the party, or b) make the challenges short - 5-10 min max.
E:
Anyone tried to use puzzle to address premise or character issues?
I once used a puzzle that asked the player to touch a stone engraving while naming someone they truly love.
One player named her character close companion (the two players where not a couple IRL) and I asked her if the door open.
She said "I don't know", she was kind of hoping that I tell her or not if there was true love between their characters.
I told her that she have to choose as a player if her character have such feeling.
We discussed a little and when I asked again if the door open, she said "no".
The player playing her companion liked the answer, and his character opened the door naming the other character.
It was a nice dramatic moment.
A other puzzle I improvised asked the players to choose from a set of small sculptures, one that represent something they hate and to offer it as symbolic sacrifice to a stone idol. One player tried to push a other player character to make the offering. But that player resisted and it was starting to escalate into a argument when a third player decided to make the offering.
She choose something representing a element of her past to sacrifice. I dint describe the small sculptures, each player could invent any sculpture they wanted to be in the set. I was hoping that the player would reveal something about how their character sided of felt toward the present issues of the game, but it was ok. I took note about the player highlighting this element of her background in hope of using it in a other game session.
These are not "real" puzzle I suppose. I could have removed the puzzles "instructions" to complicate things, but I was worried that if I do this, the players would try to resolve those puzzle like a game puzzle and would be afraid to "risk" their character on them. Well, there was also no apparent physical risk involved. Each time the puzzle was about opening a sacred or magical door.
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