[d&d4e] Puzzles in RPGs
cra2:
Quote from: Evlyn on August 14, 2009, 05:46:01 AM
These are not "real" puzzle I suppose.
Those sound like great roleplaying moments but I don't see how they're "puzzles."
But then again, I haven't looked up the strict definition of puzzle lately so I could be wrong.
I would think (again, without looking it up) that a puzzle is some sort of challenge that has a set solution (or solutions) you have to come up with in order to resolve the challenge. Like having to match certain symbols to their counterparts on a door in order for the door to open. Only the right symbols in the right places will work. Whereas in your description it semed more like they could've decided and described the sculptures as anything and they would've been right. That just sounds more like a task to complete. A neat one. But just a task. Like, saying someone has to pay 5 gold pieces to get by the statue. That's not a puzzle, that's a task. In my mind, a puzzle would be that you have to figure out the exact AMOUNT of gold pieces to give the statue, or else he attacks. etc, etc.
E:
I agree with you.
But what I found interesting is that, in the game, those task felt just like puzzles. Like there is some stereotype coming from video games puzzles scenes that you can use to make a pseudo puzzle achieve the same role as a real puzzle.
It make the players stops, thinks about how to overcome the challenge, wonder about the solution, dread a error, etc (i know, this is not a complete description of the role of puzzles in a game). Those pseudo puzzle felt satisfying to overcome just like some other puzzles and bring some variety in the pallet of challenge to overcome to explore the "dungeon" and can sometime put some character issues in the spotlight. Just like puzzle, players can't relies on their character stats or ability to overcome those task and there is some kind of choice involved. Well also, more clever pseudo puzzle who use more puzzle dressing could be designed, mine where quickly improvised.
Callan S.:
Hi Evlyn,
While not making a narrativist agenda by themselves, those two 'puzzles' would seem to be very supportive of a narrativist game if one were being played. They offer a hurdle that can only be overcome by, basically, an expression of the characters true personality. That's really interesting that you developed that! I hope you do more and give some actual play accounts here to read in future :)
E:
Hi Callan,
I don't know when I will have the opportunity to use similar oriented "puzzles", but I will see what I can do.
I am trying to run a game of Insylum and I have some doubts about how to deal with the escapades into the Nightworld while addressing player character issues. I dint think about it, but maybe I could focus a large part of the gameplay around symbolic puzzles or pseudo puzzles, like many survival horror video game do. It will kind of be in the "genre".
(But I think I would prefer to try to use again those "puzzles" in a fantasy colored game, Insylum is kind of a confusing game)
AzaLiN:
Update: Puzzle Outcomes from 4 sessions.
So, there was the gargoyle-blood puzzle, the cups puzzle, the imprisoned elf problem, the missing rope problem, the canopener problem, the illusionary orc, the cracked floor, and the negotiation. They all went great except the cracked floor, which I thought might be too hard so I had a simpler solution prepared just in case i was right :(
"I give my warm, hot, life xxxx to Atreus" and a cup, was the gargoyle puzzle. they had to fill it with a lot of blood- they decided to split the task amongst the whole party, and with one complication they succeeded, though were weakened for a whilely. Easy but let them debate and guess.
Cups: need 40ml and you have 30ml, 70ml, and a 100ml cups. they used the 70ml cup as a weapon earlier, but solved it nonetheless. simple puzzle, and quick.
The elf problem didn't have a set solution, but using holy attacks on the lock eventually broke it while, with one complication, the other members smashed through the ceiling into the cell, where the elf was imprisoned.
The missing rope had no set solution: they solved it by piling coffins and then using mage hand to tie knots while ascending a tower with the stairs rotted away. Quick and elegant.
The canopener problem was simply to use the device to open the stone sphere- force the players to find new uses for simple items and think creatively.
The hard puzzle was figuring out that the one player of the half-orc was actually an illusion. His lack of combat usefulness was a clue, his inability to break things another, his blood not helping the blood puzzle was yet another factor. It took all session for the goblin to figure it out and go hunting for the real character, a wizard.
In the cracked floor, they were stuck on a level of a dungeon with a cracked floor. There were a few small hints, but not enough- one section could be smashed through, but the rest not. the right spot was in the center, roughly, of the circle of cracks, which covered half the level, and could also be found by listening, following flickering torches, or pouring water into the cracks to find one that had a hole, but it was too hard and I had to give it to them a little- there weren't enough clues, and they weren't trying enough of their options with the cracks, focusing on other possibilities instead. next time, more clues.
In the negotiation, the elves were going to backstab them, but by preparing carefully and negotiating carefully, they managed to turn it into a fair trade with them instead. Not bad.
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