[d&d4e] Puzzles in RPGs
AzaLiN:
Each puzzle worked out well, with most being pretty easy or quick by design with an occasional hard one. The players felt pretty good about solving them, and when I could i left out a preset solution so that they would have more options and more satisfaction- a constant series of easy-medium challenges each a step towards an ultimate goal, which was how I figured Day of the Tentacle to be like, and except for the cracked floor puzzle (an experiment in linear rpg play, since half life is linear and i never minded), i tried to avoid 'caging' the players, giving them multiple problems to work on in whatever order they liked. I tried to keep in line with Ron's thinking, and it went pretty well. the hardest part was the pacing, but by having a distant goal taht every sub goal related to nicely, and each relating to the story pretty nicely, the pacing managed itself and the players, when interrogated by the inquisition later, could recall almost every bit of story i put into the place and the way the cult even operated, supplying other details i hadnt though of yet also, giving a lot of credit to Ron's story-puzzle combo idea. I'm sure that using puzzles to teach school subjects, or to relay narrativist goals can/does work equally well.
For the next segment, I'm trying to do a really open ended exploration setup that will be a sandbox and a series of non-linear puzzles across a geographic area. The trick will be keeping the players from just leaving the entire area, luring them to the plot- or else, to initiate their own plot- and scaling the encounters so that they won't be too high or low level for different areas.
Callan S.:
It sounds like some nice material! Do you see a pattern in how to make these puzzles, or are they each sort of crafted individually rather than derivations from a certain pattern?
But on 'keeping the players from just leaving the entire area', eek! Why are you concerned about that? There could be a number of reasons so I'll start with a basic question: Can't you just say 'See this area? You can't leave it. Cool? Okay, moving on with the game...'?
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luring them to the plot- or else, to initiate their own plot
Second eek!
How important is plot here? It's atleast a secondary priority or such, right? You know sports callers, when they report a game and in doing so they kind of tack a story onto the events of the sports match? Isn't that's all that's needed?
AzaLiN:
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Do you see a pattern in how to make these puzzles, or are they each sort of crafted individually rather than derivations from a certain pattern?
The puzzles- not really any pattern, mostly just takes at familiar puzzles that I've tried to improve in some way- combined with some color that I like, and whenever possible, something story integral. I start with either an interesting puzzle idea, or a color/story idea, and then I combine it with the other. I'd like to tell the story with puzzles, fights, and problems as far as possible. The less narration, the better. As for the problems/obstacles, I've been trying to just make a tricky situation without a planned solution, and make sure it isn't impossible- indeed, easy is best- just hard enough to make the players feel clever. Climb out of a steeple somehow? I didn't even know the player would play a wizard with mage hand that session, there were dozens of ways to solve that connundrum. I try to make it funny too, since it is a little unrealistic, and blend the humor with horror for a revulsion effect over the long run.
Except for the part about developing an area thoroughly, and combining storytelling and puzzles, the below section is a little off topic for the puzzle thread, just to warn ye
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on 'keeping the players from just leaving the entire area', eek!
yeah, I was thinking of putting up a huge invisible wall to avoid illusionism. I don't want to pretend they have can do something they can't. What happened last campaign is the party just fled the country after robbing some nobles, and left for the boring neighboring country. I'd like to put a lot of work into a specific area, and I can't do it if they wander over the whole world map at every moment- i'd like to focus on quality over a medium-large area instead. So, large invisible wall should be fine, especially since there's a strong humor tone [that will blend into horror over time, muw haw haw]
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Second eek!
What I want to try with this particular campaign, which will be a little less open ended than I usually do, is tell a story with puzzles, fights, and problem solving elements over many adventures. The story will be an adventure hook [hopefully!!!!], and learning the story will help to solve and reveal further problems, and on and on. I want to avoid leaning on the story too heavily- the focus should be on gameplay and roleplaying, but I want to experiment with storytelling using this approach. Each story fragment should feel, if not like something interesting to know, then a part of a map or a piece of a puzzle to advance further into the campaign- a wedge to dig deeper with for more gameplay and roleplaying. Another reason I don't want them leaving the area- I can't develop anything in detail if i dont know where it is, and its blatant backstabbing to just move dungeons wherever they travel- illusionism, which I want to avoid except where its funny... which isn't often. There's been a touch of railroading, but it's been comically blatant and we've had a lot of fun with it, since I only want to use it for certain things to initiate other things.
I realize this is counter intuitive, and against a lot of RPG doctrine, but its also against my regular practice and I think I can make it turn out but it'll take a deft hand...
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If my posts seem a little incoherent, it's cause i'm struggling to find time to write them. Any questions and I'll fill in any details I left out/muddled.
AzaLiN:
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would think (again, without looking it up) that a puzzle is some sort of challenge that has a set solution (or solutions) you have to come up with in order to resolve the challenge.
Any specific puzzles you have in mind that worked out well for ye?? :D
AzaLiN:
Drawing a blank for some puzzles right now. I need about a dozen decent ones to allow multiple avenues of exploration. I want to use a cipher for messages between elven groups, but I don't know how to make one that will be easy enough to solve PnP, without being too simple. Anyone have an example/hint? all the ciphers I've done have been in cpu games, with rotating knobs and stuff.
I think a book cipher could be good.
I also want an unfinished monument in the middle of nowhere that they find, and later on find bricks and diagrams for it in another area, but I'd like to do it so that its more of a puzzle and less obvious than that. Finishing the monument will unlock an area or trigger some stuff.
I'd like a puzzle that involves comparing local maps to regional maps to figure out where they apply to, but in PnP [pen n paper], without a lot of trial and error, skill checks, or hours of mapping, I'm not sure its feasible.
In Nostradamus, the Last Prophecy, there's a neat puzzle at the start that involves creating a disguise accurately. There's not really any pictures in PnP, so I'm not sure I can run a similar one without vexing the players!
I'd also like some sherlock holmes deduction moments, but a bit easier on the players, and without providing too many clues. I'll need to indicate that there's a deduction to be had, and yet i can't find my Arthur conan doyle books right now. Any clever tricks you recall him using/scenarios? I know that the part about figuring out somebody's profession by callouses has some potential for coolness [good ol' perception checks]
Lastly, since the party is a mixed evil-good mostly-violent group, has anybody a suggestion for designing puzzles that involve NPCs, especially evil NPCs, that don't end in torture, threats, or murder?
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Not many puzzles last session, but let me say that the makers of the Dungeon Delve product never expected such comprehensively superior tactics to be used against the 'Delve's' inhabitants. Without modifications, unless the party just rambos in mindlessly out of a desire for a thrill, there's no challenge in them! More puzzle-outcome updates to come approx. weekly...
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