[Sorcerer] British Empire Steam Punk setting
The Magus:
I recently GMed a game of Sorcerer and had mixed feelings about the results although the more I think about it the more satisfied I feel.
There were three characters involved:
Quentin, a minor member of the aristocracy. Many years ago friend of his had died summoning a Demon.
Jarvis, a naturally gifted engineer whom had created his own Demon. He was from a poor working class background but his natural talent meant he was propelled to greater engineering feats.
Daniel, a young ambitious journalist keen to hide his Catholic past. Daniel was a new character.
Initially we focused on the bind for Daniel's Demon. The Demon was his reflection in a mirror and a conversation ensued. The player had provided me with a Demon sheet. The Demons need was betrayal. As a GM I was unsure how to deal with this. Role-playing the scene was immensely satisfying but I was unsure whether the need was too vague. I tried clarifying the need in the role of the Demon. I suggested it would be wonderfully sweet to betray his parents. However, we did not actually clarifying what the betrayal was any further and in some senses any situation could be viewed as betraying one set of people over another.
The first scene involved Daniel receiving a letter from a woman sent to his newspaper office. The letter alleged that the woman's brother was incarcerated in an asylum after his dealings with members of a group called The Hadean Order. Both Quentin and Jarvis had been coerced into working for this organisation and their actions in the last session had led to this man becoming traumatised.
Daniel was manipulated into working for The Hadean Order as his editor promised him he could go far by publishing the right sort of stories. In my relationship map the leader of the order had a relationship with the editor of the paper.
The players had chosen a scenario where there had been a mine collapse and shadowy figures had been seen around the area prior to this event. As a GM I felt I set up a number of threads that the players could exploit in whatever way they chose. The first was the involvement of workers in a crisis which Jarvis would be naturally concerned about, as he was a member of the British Revolutionary Workers Party. I also contrived that local party stewards were not too concerned about the welfare of the trapped miners as their deaths might allow them the opportunity to take over the mine. Daniel was naturally interested as a journalist and his editor briefed him that whatever story it should be pinned on the Reds or the Catholics.
We then had a lengthy scene in the mine. This seemed to work very well and provided a good sense of tension. I contrived an explosion once they had entered. I felt I was setting up a lot of threads and red herrings for the players to latch onto in whatever way they chose to interpret.
The final scene involved a meeting up with The Hadean Order again. Here as a GM is where I felt quite confused. I'd given the players all the threads to make of what they wanted to and would have been satisfied with however they wanted to resolve the scenario. The leader of the Order said that he had contrived the explosion just to let them know who was in charge. However, as they had secured the mine for him bygines were to be bygones and that they would be rewarded for their efforts. At this Quentin said that he had had enough. He had been exploited by the The Hadean Order for over 20 years and chose to attack the leader. Jarvis then went to protect the leader as he had kidnapped his daughter. Daniel did not actively participate in the fight although his Demon did. He he blocked Jarvis' attempts.
I felt quite shocked as I had put quite a bit of effort into constructing a relationship map around the hadean order. The players managed to wipe out the leadership although the game finished with the room being stormed by troops and their capture.
I admired Quentin for refusing to take any more exploitation from the order but I was shocked that he knew Jarvice's daughter was still captive. Looking back on the situation I feel I did not know enough about the characters. It was as if their natures were revealed there rather than my having a sense of them previously. I don't think I pressed any of the players hard enough on how far their characters would go when we generated them.
The setting we could created was fantastic, reminiscent of the comic books 'League of Extraordinary Gentlemen' and 'Nemesis the Warlock.' Two of the players put in a tremendous amount of work in some ways making my life as a GM very easy. The third player was new to the setting but he too was taken with it.
I think one or two of the scenes absolutely sizzled for me. When Daniel bound his first demon he was looking in a mirror with a great sense of frustration and his reflection started to talk back to him. The scene in the mine was also very good the players participating really well with their characters interacting with the NPC's and each other to crank up the tension.
I'm not sure whether we're rushing the process of character generation in Sorcerer. I appreciate that some of who or what the character use is generated in gameplay but the question that underpins the game “How far will you go to get what you want?” was a little unclear for me.
I'm not sure about what other members of my group think but I wonder whether we should spend an entire session purely on character generation and character back story rather than such an elaborate setting. Also I wonder if something in the system is a little lacking for my tastes. I've looked at a few other independent RPG's and some of them seemed to provide more in terms of personality within character generation. The example that comes to mind is Burning Wheel where a character's beliefs are stated explicitly. I wonder a little about homebrewing the sorcerer rules to give more in terms of character. Generation.
I posted another thread that asks a hypothetical question about Luke Skywalker's confrontation with Darth Vader in 'The Empire Strikes Back'. This question was a poor attempt on my part to understand a little more about character motivation and its interaction with the GM. In some senses I feel a degree of unpredictability and mystery is needed in the games I play. The players at times are happy for me to dictate a scene provided it reveals a solution to the mystery all the creation of a further mystery. But I wonder if I'm actually looking for some kind of predictability? Or unpredictability within certain predictable boundaries.
I was wondering about all three characters playing in the example described above. How far would Jarvis go to protect his daughter? Would he sacrifice all his beliefs in the Workers' Revolution for her safety? Would Daniel go as far as to betray his parents in order to further his career as a journalist? What would he do to hide his Catholic past? How far would Quentin go to maintain his status as a landed gentleman? I feel at the end of the session I got my answer regarding Quentin. However, he did this at the expense of Jarvis's daughter which I feel truly shocked by.
Maybe that's what Sorcerer is all about.
As players and GM I feel we did too much non-sceneing/in-betweening. I also think we should have had more individual scenes for a character, with the other two players acting as NPC's or throwing suggestions in. Also we should have had more discrete scenes.
I was also keen to find out how other players construct bang lists. I created a list of bangs based on the relationship map But I felt the ground shifted too much beneath my feet. I then tried to crank up inter character tension and tensions between what the characters held dear and what I believed to be their darker secrets.
Any feedback on this is most welcome.
Noclue:
Quote from: The Magus on August 24, 2009, 12:54:49 PM
I recently GMed a game of Sorcerer and had mixed feelings about the results although the more I think about it the more satisfied I feel.
Interesting. I'm curious why you're feeling more satisfied and if the players share the same emotions about the experience.
Quote
Initially we focused on the bind for Daniel's Demon. The Demon was his reflection in a mirror and a conversation ensued. The player had provided me with a Demon sheet. The Demons need was betrayal. As a GM I was unsure how to deal with this. Role-playing the scene was immensely satisfying but I was unsure whether the need was too vague.
I think player and GM are supposed to work together on the starting demon sheet and then the GM gets to alter it. After that the GM plays the demon, no? Why should the player get to decide in this case how the demon's need for betrayal manifests. If he wanted to specify how the GM brought the need into the game, he really should have pushed for a more specific need on the sheet. So, if the demon is angling for betrayal of his parents, isn't that goal up to the GM?
What were the players' kickers?
Quote
We then had a lengthy scene in the mine. This seemed to work very well and provided a good sense of tension. I contrived an explosion once they had entered. I felt I was setting up a lot of threads and red herrings for the players to latch onto in whatever way they chose to interpret.
I can't tell if you were throwing bangs at them or just stuff?
Quote
The final scene involved a meeting up with The Hadean Order again. Here as a GM is where I felt quite confused. I'd given the players all the threads to make of what they wanted to and would have been satisfied with however they wanted to resolve the scenario.
Is that really truly the case? Didn't the way they chose to resolve the scenario cause "mixed feelings" of confusion and shock? It sounds like it did from your description.
Quote
I admired Quentin for refusing to take any more exploitation from the order but I was shocked that he knew Jarvice's daughter was still captive. Looking back on the situation I feel I did not know enough about the characters. It was as if their natures were revealed there rather than my having a sense of them previously.
To me this sounds like a good thing. This sounds like a win. This sounds like story now. Why do you need a sense of them previously?
Quote
I don't think I pressed any of the players hard enough on how far their characters would go when we generated them.
Again, why do you need to know this? And could they really have told you this during character generation? I doubt they knew it themselves.
Quote
The setting we could created was fantastic, reminiscent of the comic books 'League of Extraordinary Gentlemen' and 'Nemesis the Warlock.' Two of the players put in a tremendous amount of work in some ways making my life as a GM very easy. The third player was new to the setting but he too was taken with it.
I think one or two of the scenes absolutely sizzled for me. When Daniel bound his first demon he was looking in a mirror with a great sense of frustration and his reflection started to talk back to him. The scene in the mine was also very good the players participating really well with their characters interacting with the NPC's and each other to crank up the tension.
Again this sounds awesome and fantastic. Good job!
Quote
I'm not sure whether we're rushing the process of character generation in Sorcerer. I appreciate that some of who or what the character use is generated in gameplay but the question that underpins the game “How far will you go to get what you want?” was a little unclear for me.
Umm...didn't you kinda find out how far they would go in game?
Quote
I'm not sure about what other members of my group think but I wonder whether we should spend an entire session purely on character generation and character back story rather than such an elaborate setting. Also I wonder if something in the system is a little lacking for my tastes. I've looked at a few other independent RPG's and some of them seemed to provide more in terms of personality within character generation. The example that comes to mind is Burning Wheel where a character's beliefs are stated explicitly. I wonder a little about homebrewing the sorcerer rules to give more in terms of character.
Only you can decide what games you like. I suggest playing a bunch of them and deciding. However, creating fully wrought back stories will kill Burning Wheel as fast as it will kill Sorcerer. If you ask me, and you kinda did, I wouldn't do that. In Burning Wheel, I would burn the world together and then create characters with beliefs tailored to that world. In Sorcerer, why not just use the Cover, Lore, Will and Stamina relationships along with a relationship map to figure out what the Situation is and how the characters fit into it and then let the characters loose to play?
Quote
I was wondering about all three characters playing in the example described above. How far would Jarvis go to protect his daughter? Would he sacrifice all his beliefs in the Workers' Revolution for her safety? Would Daniel go as far as to betray his parents in order to further his career as a journalist? What would he do to hide his Catholic past? How far would Quentin go to maintain his status as a landed gentleman? I feel at the end of the session I got my answer regarding Quentin. However, he did this at the expense of Jarvis's daughter which I feel truly shocked by.
What bangs did you throw out that threatened Jarvis' daughter? Did you hit him with a choice between the revolution or her safety? I can't see it in the post.
What bangs did you throw out that pushed Daniel to betray his parents? It sounded like you wanted to, but pulled back. Did you throw out bangs that threatened to uncover his catholic background? Again, I'm not seeing it in the post.
Why is your shock at Quentin's behavior sounding negative? What is wrong with Quentin sacrificing Jarvis' daughter for his own goals? Also, what did Jarvis do when this happened?
Quote
As players and GM I feel we did too much non-sceneing/in-betweening. I also think we should have had more individual scenes for a character, with the other two players acting as NPC's or throwing suggestions in. Also we should have had more discrete scenes.
I think it may be that you should have had more bangs or better targetted bangs, but I'm not sure. Scenes that aren't hitting anything tend to meander and feel flat.
Quote
I was also keen to find out how other players construct bang lists. I created a list of bangs based on the relationship map But I felt the ground shifted too much beneath my feet. I then tried to crank up inter character tension and tensions between what the characters held dear and what I believed to be their darker secrets.
Can you post your list? Its hard to pull them out of the narrative. I'm seeing stuff that pertained to the character's professions or backgrounds, but not necessarily bangs, open-ended events that demand a player choice in response.
Noclue:
By the way, this actual play example is much more useful than the hypothetical with Luke and Vader. As I read that other post I was thinking "Wait, is Vader's revelation a GM bang? Or is it a player-authored kicker at the start of play? If its a bang, what is the kicker that Luke is resolving?"
Then I am just in a free fall, so I delete my post.
Per Fischer:
Hi :)
(Do you have a name besides your handle?)
Would you mind posting your setting details (one-sheet, if you made one), and some more details about the characters and demons? And what were the other characters' Kickers? I take it the letter was Daniel's Kicker.
Cheers,
Per
Mackie:
Hi
I was playing Quentin in this game. I recognize the last scene was a bit of a shocker!
Firstly, I had no idea that Quentin would do this. I had conceived as a coward who had been living in fear for twenty years, his whole life devoted to staying alive after "the incident" twenty years ago when his best friend had died.
However, after his kicker (a will which contradicted his aquired wealth from his best friend) and being effectively blackmailed into the Hadean Order, this session ended with evidence implicating the Hadean order for "the incident", and them effectively trying to kill him (and this is contrary to his prime motivation; staying alive). After a previous session driven by his paranoia (where he summoned up a nasty combat-bodyguard demon), he is beginning to ask the question - is a life dominated by fear worth living?. Combined with an attempt on his life and twenty years of misery, he simply snapped. Fear turns to rage.
Now, there is no way I would have known this response, and quite frankly, if I did the game isnt worth playing. This was how he felt to me. Fear turns to rage. I have no doubt that this was a "temporary madness of rage", and he will probably be cursing his lack of self control when he is doing hard labour or standing next to the hangmans noose (consequence of his behaviour), although a part of him will be saying "At last... peace".
To me the final scene was in keeping with the character and felt dynamic, violent, and bangy... even though a bang wasnt obviously thrown at me... to me it was a bang "Keep getting screwed over and live in fear... or succumb to revenge, escape, and even righteousness". Live by the principle of fear or the principle of justice even. At this point, Jarvice's daughter didn't even enter his mind. Quentin is self serving. Not a self serving bastard (he does have morals), but ultimately self serving. This was about HIS survival against HIS desire for vengeance. At this point, Quentin would have gladly died, and indeed, he had half-jokingly spoke about blowing his brains out in the mine, so tired he was of his fear.
For my character at least, this was a clear bang. It probably was for Jarvice too (to I aide the order who I hate because they have my daughter?) to a lesser extent. It was certainly one of the highlights of the session and felt delicious.
In strikes me that a scene needs violence to work. I dont mean violence in terms of punches, kicks, or +3 swords of twatting, but the very broadest definition of violence. Intimidation, betrayal, gambling, robbery, destruction, humiliation, danger, seduction, the list goes on. Violence in terms of - yes, my adrenaline levels are rising, my heart is beating faster. The movie "music" is there.
I'm not sure analysis of setting, characters, or method is particularly productive. It is a game. What are we looking for? That heartbeat, that drama, that "violence". Look at the scenes that worked well, thats what they had. Its been the same for my other sorcerer sessions (GM and Player) - those are the scenes that stick in the head.
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