A Dying Sorcerer - newbie confused

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AXUM:
Hello!

Not quite sure on the rules for dying in Sorcerer:
1.  What happens when a creature hits 0 Stamina?
2. Is the game set up to always recover even from the most grievous wounds (ie. you always recover a bit from the lasting damage) - thus creatures (except demons) never truly die; or is it just very hard for creatures to get killed (massive amounts of lethal damage)?


Thanks
Ax

Ron Edwards:
Hi there,

The best older thread to read about this is Special Damage less lethal, which began with some misunderstandings about damage but turned into a good discussion of character death.

The basic answer to your question is: after a fight, the character's lasting penalties are halved. If, after that point, those (remaining) penalties exceed twice the character's Stamina, he or she is officially dying. The rules fall silent at this point except for the descriptions in the most extreme row of the table on page 109, which includes "needs intensive care." I intend for groups to tune how to handle what happens next as they see fit, but the way I do it is, if there is no relevant means to help the character already present at that moment in that scene, then he or she dies. By "needs intensive care," I implied (probably too softly) "or else."

Demons are slightly easier to kill relative to their Stamina alone, as you've noticed. But it is possible for other characters, including player-characters, to die through injury. It takes a lot of work to do it unless you're using insane guns and/or demon abilities, but it can be done.

As a bit of advice, try not to think of Stamina or of any other score as being literally reduced; instead think penalized. So Stamina, for instance, does not "drop to 0" based on damage, but rather the dice rolled for Stamina of (say) 4 are subject to penalties which reduce the dice being rolled to 0. It's a subtle point which helps a lot across a number of rules. The character sheet is set up to help preserve this point, because the numbers don't change, only the marker on the edge of the sheet.

I hope that helps. Let me know!

Best, Ron

Ron Edwards:
Wait, there's more.

I need to review your question about "hitting 0 Stamina." First, my advice in the last post should show that the phrase itself is misleading. Second, I need to break it down in terms of real game mechanics in action.

1. If the character has taken some combination of temporary and lasting penalties which exceed his or her Stamina, and we're in the middle of a fight, then look at the table on page 107. This is not the same one as the table I referenced in the first post, which is to be used after a fight. Going by the one on page 107, you'll see that the character's immediate state is described, but not in terms of clinical damage.

So if those penalties sum to, say, 9, when the character's Stamina is 4, then the character is at this moment in dire straits, possibly out of the fight. In play, you can describe this however it makes sense - it might be very bloody if certain weapons were involved, or it might not. But there is absolutely nothing in that table that says he or she is genuinely damaged badly.

2. After the fight, we are only looking at the lasting penalties, and what's more, half of them. This is what you might consider the "real" damage the fight did, that the character must live with, or possibly die from if they are very high.

Again, let me know if this is making sense. If by "hitting 0 Stamina" you are talking about the first case, right there in the fight, when the temporary + lasting penalties exceed Stamina, then the middle line of that table needs to be used - and you can see it's actually not too terrible. The character is at a distinct disadvantage in the fight, but that is all. The lowest line (based on exceeding twice Stamina) is worse, but again, not lethal in the typical role-playing game sense.

I suggest impressing these rules upon your players. Stamina is not hit points. Penalties are not literal wounds poking holes in your character. "0 Stamina" is not a useful game term. Penalties exceeding Stamina do matter in terms of options, and doubly so for exceeding twice Stamina. The actual damage done to your character is calculated after the fight is completely over.

Best, Ron

AXUM:
Thanks for the aswers!!! - I'll review 'em carefully. 

Now, some background on how the questions came about:
I used a demon's ability as Special Damage Lethal - Explosive when these questions popped up.  I went like, hey, PCs can't die in Sorcerer, much less in a Sword & Sorcery setting!  Is this for reals? Pulp to the maax! (lol)

That's what prompted me.

Thanks again
Ax

AXUM:
Quote from: AXUM on September 02, 2009, 08:15:32 AM

Thanks for the aswers!!! - I'll review 'em carefully. 

Now, some background on how the questions came about:
I used a demon's ability as Special Damage Lethal - Explosive when these questions popped up.  I went like, hey, PCs can't die in Sorcerer, much less in a Sword & Sorcery setting!  Is this for reals? Pulp to the maax! (lol)

That's what prompted me.

Thanks again
Ax


"I used a demon's ability as Special Damage Lethal - Explosive when these questions popped up" (after revueing the damage rules I should say).
Ax

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