[Dogs] What are the demons for?
greyorm:
Quote from: hix on October 02, 2009, 01:36:08 PM
After our game I thought about this, Simon: the demons give us someone to blame...they give us an excuse not to face up to our own culpability, our own human responsibilities for causing the sin in the first place.
I've always seen that as a cop-out response to the issue because it just doesn't hold for me.
Consider: there are demons and sorcery and crazy-bug-eyed things everywhere in Sorcerer, and no one ever says "Gee, all those demons and things really removes the moral weight of the game."
I guess I'm thinking that if you're doing it right, no one gets off blameless: they were there, they did it, they chose to be where they are doing what they're doing, demons or not. There weren't things in their head forcing them to do anything or follow anyone, at least nothing they didn't put there themselves.
I would think "The Devil made me do it!" would be false doctrine? Especially since the situations, and the progression of demonic influence in the town, are built up from someone sinning, not from a creepy crawly sneaking into someone's head and making them go out and hate children or commit rape or forced marriage or etc?
(Plus, isn't the game more about the moral choices the Dogs make, not the NPCs?)
lumpley:
Hold for Simon please, everybody! This could become a whole theory- and nuance-thick conversation, and that could be really fun, but we gotta do right by Simon first.
I really hope you'll answer my questions, Simon. I think they're good ones.
-Vincent
Simon C:
Hi Vincent!
Sorry it took me a little while to get back to this.
They're good questions.
The reason I want to go more supernatural is, I think, because I like the aesthetics of it. I'd like to do something that's a little bit creepy and obviously superntatural, but explore the human factors behind that. Mostly I think I'd like to experiment with different ways of playing the game. I've got a handle on very low-supernatural play, and I'm interested to see what I can do with supernatural stuff.
That said, I'm very happy with the effects of low-supernatural play. The most recent town I ran had a very powerful ending that I think was enhanced by the very human nature of the events in the town. Brother Jackson had been sleeping with a prostitute, and was betrothed to another woman in the town. The Dogs told him he'd have to call off the wedding, confess to his father and his betrothed, and live with their scorn. He refused, and set out to go to California with the prostitute. The dogs tried to get him to accept their judgement, and feel some remorse. He pulled a gun, and they killed him.
The players were very conflicted about the decision to kill him. There was a moment where they were still trying to convince him to accept their judgement, and he'd pulled a gun. They could have stayed in the conflict, and they almost certainly would have won, but they gave, and then killed the guy, because they'd decided he wasn't worth saving. It was a very powerful moment, and I think giving the guy some obvious demonic power wouldn't have added anything to the game, and would possibly have robbed the situation of its ambiguity. That's what I'm worried about when I say I'm worried about doing it wrong.
Does that make sense? I'm happy to clarify further.
lumpley:
Oh no problem. Take your time.
Was Brother Jackson a sorcerer? Did that town go to hate and murder?
-Vincent
lumpley:
Oh I also wanted to say. The basic trick for making a town with a strong villain, but preserving difficult judgment, is to make the villain be a reaction to the town's underlying problem, not the cause of it.
I'll quote myself from another thread: Quote from: lumpley on March 10, 2009, 08:09:50 AM
Here's about humanizing the murderous sorcerer: Don't. He's not human anymore. The Dogs will kill him and it's the right thing for them to do. When have you seen a Western when the guy in the black hat deserved to live?
What to do instead: make sure that it's someone else's pride, not his, and someone else's sin, not his, and maybe even someone else's false doctrine, not his.
I go on in that post to give an example town, check it out. In fact it's a good thread, I recommend the whole thing: [Dogs] Buildin' towns and settin' dials. It probably won't out-and-out answer your questions, Simon, but it might, and it'll shed light anyway.
-Vincent
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