[Theory] Let's have a good look at Colour, again
Marshall Burns:
This thread touches on something I've been thinking about for a long time now, but it's been hard for me to follow, and the thing I've been thinking about is hard to articulate. But I've got an exercise:
1. Of the many things being described as Color in this thread, think about how many would actually be better described as a function of Situation or Character (usually Positioning, but sometimes Resource).
2. Having thought about that, think about the things you would still consider Color.
3. Having thought about that, think of a time when something that you considered just Color became, at one point, an element of Situation or Character. By what process did that transformation happen? What prompted that process to be employed?
4. Tell us about that time.
I'ma try to do this myself soon. Gimme time, though.
Christoph Boeckle:
Hi Marshall
I'm confused: have I not done that exercise through the whole thread? If not, just tell me what's missing for you to understand and I'll try to help.
Marshall Burns:
Sorry, I was vague :)
The answer is yes, mostly. But I'd like to see this stuff teased apart a bit more. For instance, I think it's worth pointing out explicitly that once it was established that the sextant was having an effect on the souls thing, it became a function of Situation -- specifically an element of Situation that the various characters would be Positioned relative to. And then describing, as clearly as possible, the process by which that was established. The process is clearly one of building through mutual consent, but, I mean, specifically, when did you realize the sextant's effect, and what prompted that realization? (As an example. There's no need to revisit the sextant if you'd rather pick out another example).
(Whug. That paragraph feels dense and tangled to me; is it comprehensible?)\
-Marshall
Lior Wehrli:
Hi Christoph,
I think I was at the same place regarding Color as you were. If color was description that didn't matter, why even bother to mention it? After all, a lot of things happen at the table that don't matter: Joe goes to the toilet and Anna has a can of beer. We do not talk about that or describe that as color, so why talk about other things that do not matter? So I was inclined to just ignore the concept of color altogether.
But when I read your thread I noticed that the description in the examples you mentioned do matter a lot. And yet, they do not form an entity separate from character, setting and situation (from no on: CSS). So it should be discussed. But I do not think color should be in the group with CSS since its an orthogonal concept.
Hi Marshall,
Going through you exercise, I have to stop at step 2. I cannot think of an example of color which is not part of CSS. Can you? I am tempted to claim that inside the SIS everything is either character, setting or situation. Outside of SIS you have system, CA, techniques and so on. And those of course influence SIS very much. Now if color is a property of things inside SIS, then it can only be a property of CSS. For me the question is: Can color come from outside of SIS? I cannot think up an example for that.
Here is how I see it (at the moment, at least):
CA --System--> SIS(Character <-> Situation <-> Setting) --Inspiration--> CA (imagine that as a loop)
So according with their CA the players use the system to manipulate the SIS. The SIS is divided into the three components CSS. There is a feedback from the SIS to the CA in the form of inspiration. One source of inspiration within SIS is color (another might be challenge?).
Now I think that is way outside the big model. Or at least well outside of my reading of the big model. What do you guys think?
Regards,
Lior
Christoph Boeckle:
Hi Marshall
Okay, I see your point now. Give me some time to recollect my thoughts and answer your question properly.
Hi Lior
In the Big Model, the Shared Imagined Space can be described in the following "equation":
Colour * [ System * [ Situation = [ Character + Setting] ] ]
Colour is part of SIS and does indeed apply (or rather multiplies as Ron sometimes says), the four other elements. I agree that it makes no sense to talk of Colour that does not apply to one of those elements at least (Colour for System examples include: the poetic formulation of Key Phrases in Polaris, a particular choice of dice: I play Polaris with a translucent die that has runes engraved on it, etc.)
What you are designating as SIS is just part of it, namely Situation.
Colour does come from outside of the SIS, in a trivial sense that applies to the SIS in it's entirety. It's the people playing that produce it, it is not generated by the SIS itself in an autonomous perpetual motion cycle. This is why I like your notion of inspiration, because it invites the players to continue Exploring.
I don't think we need to figure in any CA for this discussion, what we're currently describing can happen even with no coherent CA at work (although arguably it'll be less fun or sustainable).
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