[Theory] Let's have a good look at Colour, again
JoyWriter:
Quote from: chance.thirteen on October 26, 2009, 11:52:32 PM
How do you think the model, or any model, deals with something that goes from background color to the color of the experience itself? And how does that relate to giving an award?
Is there some fine insight to be gained? I could see the "poetic" end of the spectrum being a goal in itself, where the experience feels right to the player.
I've tried to come up with a set of examples from my experience to explain this, but I can't find any ones that are clear so I'll have to stick with hypothetical examples instead:
What are the birthday parties like in the human worlds of wh40k? They don't have them because THERE IS ONLY WAR!
In other words, setting the colour of a setting in broad strokes may limit the potential colour available in the game, and make it more monotone, whereas in contrast, the background before the game may not have a single clear tonal definition, but colour in play might be very important, in each of it's different forms.
Or the difference might be a shift between the broader tone and a local change from that, (the party above) if it is allowed to be different.
In this way the colour of a situation can be central, but totally different from the colour suggested by the background. It fits inside it fractal styley, and gives it nuances.
Another version of this is the subversion that can happen during a game, when a four-colour superhero game goes watchmen. I have this feeling that this kind of dramatic colour change is a consequence of a narr-like attitude to the background, and one of the places that this colour -> system thing becomes particularly important.
On the other side even if you have good background colour, it can be tricky to replicate it, as a friend of mine found doing starwars: Just knowing you have the same batch of characters and the same setting elements, somehow doesn't produce the same feel, if you don't know how to put them together right. Now actually doing that could be expanded into a whole other topic obviously, and a load of others will have more experience in doing that, but by putting the distinction between the background and the current situation, hopefully it shows up that skill is necessary to bridge that gap.
On the rest of the post, I'm not sure what you mean by awards, so I'll probably leave it there for now.
Quote from: Marshall Burns on October 29, 2009, 02:40:27 PM
1. Of the many things being described as Color in this thread, think about how many would actually be better described as a function of Situation or Character (usually Positioning, but sometimes Resource).
Interesting, I sympathise with Lior's first paragraph, in that it occurs to me this might be like saying "if you bang your hand on a wooden table and it hurts, which is the cause, wood or table?" ie it occurs to me that not all distinct concepts can be distinguished by all interactions, so the question might not have any good answer!
But if I'm going to come up with a no-go like that, I'll need to back it up further: As I've come across these discussions I've found it helpful to see colour as something that overlaps with both of those, and comes from them; it's where I stick the symbolic stuff you get into with tessellation, magic as well as the indefinable gestalt stuff associated with design sensibilities and style, but focused on the situation currently being explored.
So I've got one of those whole/parts things going on with colour at the moment, and I'm happy to lay that aside and call what I've been talking about something else, but my impression is that it fits pretty well.
So I'd love to hear about positioning, and the extent to which it is embodied in specific situation elements, but I suspect that may be compatible with this stuff about colour, rather than negating it.
But who knows? :)
Christoph Boeckle:
Hi Marshall
After reflection, I think that my points to Lior largely apply to my answer to you as well. Of course Colour does not exist on its own. I have no problem with the Provisional Glossary's part of the definition I gave in the initial post that says Colour is about "details about any or all of System, Character, Setting, or Situation".
In the case of the sextant, it moved from Colour applying to System to Colour applying to my Character to Colour applying to Situation and arguably to Setting. It was established first by choosing the sextant as our inspirational seed for the session, then I established it as part of my character by just saying it was, and then the other two players riffed off of that idea. The sextant's effect was left shady a good deal of the game (which was tactically sound for this contemplative game where it was all about exploring the possible implications). A number of issues could have been given to the session, but the episode was so ripe with possibilities and hints and innuendo that the proposed ending seemed totally credible to everybody.
Does that answer your question?
Troy_Costisick:
Heya Chance,
Quote from: chance.thirteen on October 26, 2009, 11:52:32 PM
How do you think the model, or any model, deals with something that goes from background color to the color of the experience itself? And how does that relate to giving an award?
Is there some fine insight to be gained? I could see the "poetic" end of the spectrum being a goal in itself, where the experience feels right to the player. Where does that fit?
In 2007 I wrote a blog article about color: http://socratesrpg.blogspot.com/2007/05/what-is-color.html
I think that my distinction between Essential Color and Casual Color may be helpful to you. My focus is more on design than play, there, so I imagine there may be parts that are not relevant to your inquiry about color. If you read that article and you have some questions, I'll be more than pleased to answer them.
Peace,
-Troy
FredGarber:
Is it possible that Color doesn't move to Situation/Setting/Character, but that the Situation/Setting/Character gains an attribute that is identical to the Color?
In less abstract terms, the sextant did not somehow transform from "not affecting play" to "affecting play". Instead, the sextant described as Color was an inspiration for some player to add a sextant to the Setting, or add a sextant to a Character?
When the group was describing the lighthouse, I would like to assume other things were described and imagined.. There might have been a clock on the wall, a spyglass on a stand, a yellow raincoat, the lighthouse beacon (either bright or dark). A seagull sitting on the railing. Black rocks with the salt spray crashing against them. All of these might have been Color elements. However, one player picked up on the Sextant, and used it to affect the situation, or the character, or the setting.
They might have used some sort of formal System, like spending a resource coin or an action point. But they might have used something more free-form, like just declaring "I pick up the sextant from the table," and no other player/authority said "What sextant? I don't remember that. Why is there a sextant lying around? No." or some other sort of denial.
IMHO, this thread is skirting dangerously close to moving away from "How do you incentivize appropriate additions from Color to the SiS?" and into "How do you encourage people to use their imagination to come up with cooler stuff?" The first is something that you can discuss. The second, in my opinion, is not (at least not before 3AM while sober)
-Fred
Troy_Costisick:
Fred,
It's fairly clear that you have some fundamental misconceptions about the areas of Exploration. But don't worry, people have had misunderstandings on this topic for many years. Your sentence,
Quote
In less abstract terms, the sextant did not somehow transform from "not affecting play" to "affecting play". Instead, the sextant described as Color was an inspiration for some player to add a sextant to the Setting...
shows that you don't quite grasp the idea yet. I highly encourage you to pour over the Provisional Glossary entries on Exploration and its components, along with the links to Vincent's blog I am posting here before making further analysis on "Color."
http://indie-rpgs.com/_articles/glossary.html
http://www.lumpley.com/comment.php?entry=166
http://www.lumpley.com/comment?entry=73
Peace,
-Troy
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