Questions regarding apparently non-sentient Demons (f. ex. technological)
lachek:
Thanks Jules, I hadn't seen that thread and it's great. Unfortunately it doesn't provide a lot of answers, though - it serves more to confirm my apprehension. I need to treat the demons as narrative elements with desires and needs - not as inert tech - but then I also have to portray them plausibly within the fiction to retain the players' suspension of disbelief. I can see why David was reluctant to go there, and why Ron and others gave him the alternative of just having tech be tech and let the demons be something else. In my setting that'd defeat the purpose, as a major play goal is to explore the repercussions of dealing with tech that's "against humanity".
Right now I feel a bit like someone who's boldly declared he's going to scale a Mt. Everest, and then goes to gripe on the mountaineering board that climbing is hard.
Ron Edwards:
This forum is always a fine place to vent such feelings.
Anyway, here are some more threads of interest:
Sherman tank demon (split)
Why would I even want to play this game? (the parent thread to the above; slightly dubious utility, but some posts are relevant to the present question)
[Sorcerer] Demons as natural forces and appropriate Stamina scores ... (similar to the alchemy one - on reflection, the guy realizes he doesn't want to make his tech, or similar stuff, into demons at all)
Best, Ron
GreatWolf:
Quote
How to properly portray and play demons when demons do not have or cannot display a personality
How to play demons with no fictionally apparent sentience or motivation (but where sentience and motivation must exist as per the mechanics)
Okay, so I work in IT, and this all makes a lot of sense to me. See, when people are new to computers, they think of them as strange possessed machines with an intelligence all their own, right? The computer does things that are strange and mysterious, which require getting your friend the IT Guy (with some points in Lore) to come appease the machine.
Then folks usually get some experience and understand that, no, computers are just machines that are basically logical, though occasionally unreliable.
Then, some of those folks get into IT, where they discover that computers are strange possessed machines with an intelligence all their own. And now it's your responsibility to appease them or to find someone else with Lore who can give you some rollover successes on your Punish roll.
I kid you not. Modern-day computers are totally demons.
My old work laptop was cranky. I'd boot it up sometimes, and it would sulk and refuse to work. I'd have to turn it off and then turn it back on before it would actually work. Then the sound card would turn off from time to time, usually when I was in the middle of a Skype call. Rebooting worked...sometimes....
Now I have a new laptop, which is generally better behaved, though it doesn't like going to sleep sometimes.
See what I did there? Those two laptops were characters. I ascribed to them personality and motive. That's because I really do ascribe personality and motive to computers. My mind tells me that they are just machines, but I'm not always totally sure.
Make your "technology" the same way. So, that HUD helmet is unreliable in combat...unless it was properly charged last night and rebooted properly. Otherwise, it's kinda sulky and doesn't really work as well as it should. That ocular implant occasionally s-l-o-w-s d-o-w-n...unless it was appeased in some fashion.
Or Punished.
I mean, I yell at my computer. Don't you? Do you expect it to listen to you?
Because, on some level, I do.
lachek:
Seth, that's pure gold!
As it happens I'm also in IT and came to the same realization as you some time ago. With the completely inept and with my peers, I usually discuss computers in language which ascribes personality in that sense as I've found it communicates the point very well. With people who have achieved some degree of understanding, but who have not yet achieved the level of understanding where they realize they actually know very, very little (i.e. "power users") I avoid using such language as it tends to muddle and confuse. I can't believe I didn't consider using the same in this game.
In the fiction, the completely ignorant will treat the demons as magical implements, not mundane objects. Compare "boomstick". This is the vast majority of NPCs.
There are those who believe they know what's really going on - but they're not sorcerers. These folk might be able to piece together and operate vacuum cleaners or wind turbines, but they can't do anything with ancient "demon" tech - computer networks, biotech, advanced military equipment, etc - because they don't comprehend what powers make them tick.
And finally there are sorcerers, who are people with perhaps some comprehension of the science behind the demon tech, but definitely with a degree of comprehension of makes these demons really tick.
I can totally grok this idea and I think this will make it a lot easier for me both to run the game and convey the ideas behind it to the players. Thanks!
Finarvyn:
No much to add about the over-intellectualizing discussion part of the thread, but I wanted to mention to lachek that I really like his campaign link. Some really cool ideas hidden therein.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page