Point/Success of Publishing Without Community?
MatrixGamer:
I think I have some useful experience to offer on this.
I've been at this for over twenty years and can not honestly say I've every had much commercial success. We do okay at Gen Con because of stuffed animals and puppets not becuase of games. So profit has never been the prime motive of doing this. Having people play my games is the payoff and that is hard to achieve.
When I started I wrote a ton of articles for newletters (now it would be called Blogging - but this was pre-internet). I put out a newsletter which I gave away for free for a couple of years and then just charged cost. I ran play by mail versions of Matrix Games through the newsletter. Sure I went to some conventions but that was as much because this is my hobby as due to selling. I ran games at regional cons to run games. They were not tied to a product I had for sale. Duh! It took me years to figure out I should link what I run with what I sell!
Along the way all this effort has led me to burn out a couple of times. I could easily have quit but when I asked myself what else I'd be doing I didn't have a better thing to do. Pushing Matrix Games is important to me even though I've never had a hit. Along the way this has lead me to learn a ton of skills some of which are cool (like being able to make board games and hardback books). When I die I will not view this as wasted time.
Right now I continue to make games. I have a yahoo group where we play PBEM Matrix Games. We are about to get a Hercule Poirot murder mystery game going. These are all free and account for a good half of the gaming I do in a year. I attend a few cons for fun (Pentacon this coming weekend in Fort Wayne IN, the Seven Years War Association Con in South Bend IN, Marcon in Columbus OH) and Origins to run games. I only have a booth at Gen Con, where I sponcer three people to run games for me out in gaming rooms.
I know the next step for me is to take my most commercial products and sell them to stores. I know I fear doing this. It is mild social anxiety (one of my fatal flaws) but I move ever closer to that goal. Will that bring "success" I suspect not. A few games catch people's imaginations or get enough buzz to be called a hit. Most things don't so we have to be alternately motivated to do the work.
So about the original question - do con runs sell games? My experience is that they do but not many. Cons are expensive to attend and even big companies shot to break even rather than for a profit. Getting actual play is more elusive than a simple answer. Presistence though is a useful trait - one which I think you have - look at how many posts you've made!
Chris Engle
MatrixGamer:
I think I have some useful experience to offer on this.
I've been at this for over twenty years and can not honestly say I've every had much commercial success. We do okay at Gen Con because of stuffed animals and puppets not becuase of games. So profit has never been the prime motive of doing this. Having people play my games is the payoff and that is hard to achieve.
When I started I wrote a ton of articles for newletters (now it would be called Blogging - but this was pre-internet). I put out a newsletter which I gave away for free for a couple of years and then just charged cost. I ran play by mail versions of Matrix Games through the newsletter. Sure I went to some conventions but that was as much because this is my hobby as due to selling. I ran games at regional cons to run games. They were not tied to a product I had for sale. Duh! It took me years to figure out I should link what I run with what I sell!
Along the way all this effort has led me to burn out a couple of times. I could easily have quit but when I asked myself what else I'd be doing I didn't have a better thing to do. Pushing Matrix Games is important to me even though I've never had a hit. Along the way this has lead me to learn a ton of skills some of which are cool (like being able to make board games and hardback books). When I die I will not view this as wasted time.
Right now I continue to make games. I have a yahoo group where we play PBEM Matrix Games. We are about to get a Hercule Poirot murder mystery game going. These are all free and account for a good half of the gaming I do in a year. I attend a few cons for fun (Pentacon this coming weekend in Fort Wayne IN, the Seven Years War Association Con in South Bend IN, Marcon in Columbus OH) and Origins to run games. I only have a booth at Gen Con, where I sponcer three people to run games for me out in gaming rooms.
I know the next step for me is to take my most commercial products and sell them to stores. I know I fear doing this. It is mild social anxiety (one of my fatal flaws) but I move ever closer to that goal. Will that bring "success" I suspect not. A few games catch people's imaginations or get enough buzz to be called a hit. Most things don't so we have to be alternately motivated to do the work.
So about the original question - do con runs sell games? My experience is that they do but not many. Cons are expensive to attend and even big companies shot to break even rather than for a profit. Getting actual play is more elusive than a simple answer. Presistence though is a useful trait - one which I think you have - look at how many posts you've made!
Chris Engle
greyorm:
Thanks for the input, guys, and thanks for answering my question, Ryan.
Chris, you bring up a good point. Looking back, I realize I was really vague in my meaning of using Cons as a platform: I wasn't thinking of the profit-at-Con motivation or running-a-booth when I posted; I was thinking solely about the use of Cons, local or national, for the use of running slots of the games/products in question. I didn't mean to imply using Cons as a way to sell product, because you're correct about them not being good profit-venues. Rather, I think they are seen as a way to build community (or mind-space in the larger community), and then using the community to actually sell the products.
MatrixGamer:
Thart's how I've always viewed them. Nothing wrong with making a profit if you can but breaking even is a good goal for Gen Con and at other cons I'm there having fun as much as I'm pushing product.
Is there anyway you can run your game on line? I've seen people talking about playing on Skype over on the Story Games forum.
Chris Engle
Christoph Boeckle:
Hello Raven
I also believe that the question of conventions or not is probably only the second concern about the overarching one of community.
I think this discussion needs to take into account three precise points, because this discussion is totally connected to Orx as a product:
1) Elfs and Orx look like they are competitors for the same kind of gamist play with an additional objective of exorcising roleplayers of past AD&D-like frustrations and/or providing slapstick comedy in a fantasy setting. Both are essentially catering to the same demands.
2) Elfs was published before Orx and has a very easy to understand text (Eero seems to say the Orx text is more complicated).
3) I could only find two AP reports on Orx (plus another one which was the report of the first playtest) on the Forge, all written by you, while I've found about ten for Elfs (three by Ron, the rest by others). Both your AP reports have at least some ambiguous notions about the game's ripeness and concerned short one-hour sessions (whereas you imply the game is rather for longer sessions). Only one other player responded to say he was ready to continue testing the game (I'm instinctively thinking: "Oh, the game is not ready.") Ron's AP are enthusiastic and very positive. Plus he manages to get people discussing the game or the session.
You have a high quality competitor and no all-out positive AP to speak of (at least on the Forge). Maybe I'm projecting too much of my attitude on the average indie-consumer, but as far as I'm concerned, I don't even consider buying a game if the author isn't all jazzed and positive about it.
Since you're a well-known and long time Forge contributor, you should start by getting the word out here via enthusiastic AP reports. It's one community you're a part of and you've under-used it, in my opinion.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page