Combat molasses
trick:
I've been reading an earlier thread titled Warhammer; Chaos! Order! Molasses!. It's about the dullness of just going from place to place and trivial conflicts. In the games I've been playing I've been fortunate enough not to have much of a problem with that exactly, but I've noticed that I've had a similar with combat.
It's gotten so bad, that combat has pretty much become that annoying period of boredom that lies between roleplaying. I've had similar experiences with a number of D20 variants, Dark Heresy, WFRP, and Savage Worlds (in order of worst to least worst). Here's examples of what happens in actual play:
Players narrate their actions with extreme detail.Players ask questions about the rules or spend time looking them upPlayers ask "what should I do" to each other, and debate on what the best tactic would be.
Now from my experiences (wrestling and paintball) this ends up producing a completely wrong experience. Combat is quick, there's no time to talk about what's happening or process it; it just happens. In combat, there is a lot of uncertainty. When you're in the thick of things you don't stop to think about consequences, you are motivated purely by what you need to do to stay safe at the moment; you just do the first thing that comes to mind. When you do get a chance to rest, it's because you lost sight of the enemy and now he's moving into position to ambush you. There is very little to no talking in combat, and certainly no debate.
On top of that, the tactics that are available are pretty lame. It's basically just a matter of min-maxing between the various possible attack actions. It's not really possible to execute any sort of effective ambush because as soon as the surprise round is over, everyone magically knows where everyone is. You can be behind full cover and still magically see you enemy.
Anyways, my question is how do you improve the experience. I've thought of some ideas but I'm not sure people would accept them very well (like putting a time limit on rounds and banning speech during combat).
contracycle:
I have a fairly strict hesitate rule, that, well, has downsides but addresses this particular issue quite well. A point to a player and ask them what they do; if they don't answer in 3 or 4 seconds, I say "you hesitate" and they lose an action or round or whatever. After a few applications people get the message that any decision is better than none and are mentally prepared to provide rapid answers.
I have also prevented people talking to each other, but somewhat more generously now I'm inclined to just chivvy them along, tell them they are taking too much time, intervene as it were. Both of these are sticks that should not be wielded too vigorously, and there is room for contextual judgement, but having them around sets a tone and expectations.
Callan S.:
I'm not sure my thread was about that, but never mind.
One thing to consider is that real life combat...is pretty bloody awful. It's not fun.
Yet your, presumably, playing for fun (some particular type of fun - there's many types).
So by being more realistic your either making a literally unpleasant game, or to some extent it's going to be faux realism. It's going to be fake to some extent, to facilitate it being fun in some way.
trick:
Well, real life combat as in war can be pretty awful, but not all combat is. Combat sports (like wrestling) can be a lot of fun. That's were I'm pulling my experience from.
Now as for fighting with swords and guns, your certainly right, there needs to be some sort of fakeness to make it fun. Only a real retard goes into mortal combat just for fun. However, D20 and Warhammer systems aren't highly realistic as-is. Warhammer a lot more so though. It's one of those systems where having your character loose an arm because some dork failed his sneak check is quite a reality.
However, I'm talking about issues that aren't contained in the system itself (or at least not in these systems). They've been relegated to realm of social contract.
trick:
contracycle: Have you had any player-GM conflict with the hesitate rule?
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