How to make sessions/scenes stop dragging?
Falc:
Quote from: Callan S. on January 11, 2010, 06:04:24 PM
You know, these days I'd actually recommend NOT talking to your friends about it.
I mean, how is pacing handled? What mechanism controls it? It's probably just been left up to the spirit of the moment at the table.
And they are using that vague spirit thing 'correctly', as much as you can use anything ill defined correctly. Having a chat with them about how they handle the pacing mechanic would be like having a chat with someone (ie, chatting to make them change their move) about making a certain chess move or having a chat with someone not to win a stake in capes.
I think you need to make pacing mechanics which do what you want, then pitch it to them that next session your using this when you GM, or your not GM'ing. Sure, they might like the laza faire method. But you don't. If you can't offer some model of doing it which is a compromise, you just have to give the ultimatum (or go with their flow and do what you don't want to do).
I don't know. If Dionysus never actually told his friends that he feels they're going too slow, then acting like you advocate seems a bit too rash, too confrontational. They're playing the game, they're having fun and then out of the blue, the GM announces the rules have to change or he's gonna quit GMing? I'd say that even people you only know from gaming deserve a bit more credit. You yourself spoke of compromise. How can you make a compromise without getting everyone's input?
Perhaps I was a bit vague myself, I certainly don't advise a round of soul-searching for the whole table into why they're playing RPGs this way, but a simple "Hey guys, don't you feel we've spent enough time on this by now? I'm getting a bit bored with it..." is a sensible first step, no? And it's precisely because Dionysus didn't mention anything like that in his post that I advised him to start talking to his friends before taking action.
Dionysus:
Yeah, I haven't mentioned anything about it yet, specifically as everyone seems to be having a great time. :)
But in other discussions on the HotB forums i'm beginning to realise that I haven't been running the game exactly right - doing the equivalent of letting the character do over their actions again and again.. hence why it feels like its taking so long...
But - something learnt from this - a) my players LOVE having direct input, so empowering them is a good thing. b) making a interpreted summary of those rules might be a good thing as they are not really clear :(
c) most importatnly - to be gentle and keep everyone enjoying the game - sudden unexpected changes will annoy everyone :)
Callan S.:
Falc, taking a stand for what you want is always going to be confrontational to some degree - either that or your not really taking a stand for it and what you want is getting diluted.
Now perhaps I should have said talking about a new game system is fine. Even one that uses alot of the previous system.
But talking about the way they play? They are playing the games rules (what rules there are) the way they want to right now. To talk about it is to literally say 'Lets talk about you playing in a way, to varying degrees, you don't want to'.
I mean, that's what I'm taking from the actual play account right now - they are playing the way they want to. Would you also say that's the case?
So to talk with them (the talk your refering to) about how they play is to bring up the idea of them not doing what they want to do. That's the conclusion I come to. Am I missing with the conclusion or am I off base with the foundation assessment that they are playing the way they want? I'm genuinely asking this, not saying it in the traditional internet way of 'Of course I'm right!'. I may be wrong and am interested in recieving evidence that might indicate that.
greyorm:
Quote from: Dionysus on January 12, 2010, 07:58:58 AM
But in other discussions on the HotB forums i'm beginning to realise that I haven't been running the game exactly right - doing the equivalent of letting the character do over their actions again and again.. hence why it feels like its taking so long...
One of the things I have learned to watch for with players is a very common "I failed, so I'll just try it again" behavior. For example, in our 3:16 game last week one of the players wanted to get into radio contact with the capital ship through the interference they were experiencing. He rolled and failed, then declared he was going to roll to try again. I had to just say, "Not possible, the interference is too strong. Unless you can find some way to overcome it or break through it, you can't get through."
And that's the thing: make it clear, once the dice are rolled and the resolution achieved, there is no "do again" or "try over". But note that if there could be a "do over", then you're not making the results of failure meaningful enough.
What do I mean? I recall reading a story about how a group of characters had to row a boat ashore from a sinking ship, so the GM called for rowing checks, and the players just sat and rolled until they finally made it ashore -- the point was that the failures did nothing but take up time. When failure doesn't mean anything, you're basically asking them to row their boat ashore.
So try keeping this in mind as a catchphrase: "When someone fails, something explodes."
Again, "When someone fails, something explodes."
Not necessarily literally. For example, in a debate perhaps a new character enters the discussion, opposed to both parties, or opposed to the player, so things get harder, or new/different choices have to be made. Or maybe a character is haggling with a merchant, and in the midst of this someone steals their coin purse: they have to decide to keep haggling, or chase the thief down.
The point about a failure is you need to do something: Change the situation. Change its priorities. Change its participants. Make it interesting.
And by "interesting", I do not mean "used as an excuse to hose the players." Failure should be fruitful, not merely difficult.
Quote
Yeah, I haven't mentioned anything about it yet, specifically as everyone seems to be having a great time. :)
The other side of the equation is this: do you need to change anything if they are having a good time?
On the other hand, if it is being not-fun for you, then approaching the table to say, "I don't know if any of you noticed, but things feel to me like they are moving really slow. I thought of a way we could make this even more fun, give us even more stuff to actually do, put a little dramatic tension into the resolution?"
Callan S.:
Alternatively it's actually a bug in the games design that they can just keep trying till they pass. I mean, I could go write a quick design that is deliberately buggy this way and no, it wouldn't be your fault if you didn't make failure explosive, it's my fault as designer for writing it that way.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page