[GURPS Traveller] What type of play is this?
David C:
I was invited by a friend to play some GURPS Traveller. I wasn't particularly interested (ughhh, GURPS...) but I always like meeting new people.
The game was mostly dominated by the day to day tasks of running a space ship. (Which was plagued by the arbitrary and excessive skill list in gurps). There was this spreadsheet of ship functions and a rating of 1-10 for each. The players went through fixing parts of the ship. Not only were there rolls involved, but they had to find the appropriate parts and stuff. (They talked through fixing something then made a roll like some kind of glue. If the roll didn't succeed, than the glue didn't stick)
We then explored some ancient alien ship which was a similar process. Players would talk through pushing random buttons and cataloging what they did. Generally, no skill rolls were made during this part.
Talking to some of the players, I understand they play GURPs because "all those other systems are so unrealistic." (Is it just me, or do some people just not have a very good grasp on "reality?" Because to me, every game has its ridiculousness in play. Like in GURPs, combat never lasts over 10 seconds)
So I'm wondering, does this qualify as Sim play? Or is it Gamist play?
Ar Kayon:
Looks like simulationist play to me, albeit far beyond that which anyone should ever venture. Gluing parts together? Yawn. I'll take a mindless dungeon raid any day.
I've taken a few cursory looks at GURPS, and it appears to me like overbloated, inefficient rules.
On a side note, it appears that many sims offer gamist mechanics. In my opinion, this is actually a good thing, unless if the rules really stretch your suspension of disbelief (MMORPG style), or if the rules are just too damn bloated. However, many sim players seem to have a high threshold for the latter.
Ron Edwards:
I'd like to get to this topic in some detail, but there are issues with both the questions being asked, and some of the reply, that will take a bit of work on my part to parse. Other replies are welcome, but folks - remember these points please.
1. Reward cycles vary greatly in terms of time scale. If you expect one to "revolve" within a session or two, or at least to be able to see it moving, and if you're playing with a group which expects the same thing only in terms of months or years of play, then to you, nothing is happening but to them it is.
2. Play might not have any actual Creative Agenda firing. Zilchplay is real. If you encounter Zilchplay, you can't ask "What type of play is it," and expect an answer. There isn't an answer in that case.
3. "Realism" is a buzzword with multiple meanings, or sometimes, a mask over "I dunno." When someone uses the term, it's code for something else they think you automatically understand, so there's no point in trying to match it to any literal meaning of "real." Nor is it any sort of giveaway in terms of CA.
Again: you played one session. Don't expect anyone actually to be able to classify this in CA terms. We might get lucky and after a few directed questions, the answer might appear after all. But as a long-time player of GURPS myself, don't bet on it.
Best, Ron
Callan S.:
Hi David,
Why are you asking? Or more accurately, how are you asking? Are you asking like they are a specimen on a petri dish being examined, or are you asking to see if it's something you might find you can enjoy if you can understand the fun a bit better?
David C:
I guess I didn't clarify this, but I've actually played 4 sessions. There's been several different ruins that we've explored. They're all essentially the same thing, except with different themes. (They all look like jacks or caltrops, but one was all organic, one was crystalline, one was nanobots)
Ar Kayon, I don't think SJ has ever seen a mechanic he hasn't liked, because GURPS has EVERY mechanic. It's like some twisted Menagerie of every idea that has ever been posted to First Thoughts (but none of the cool narr ones). There's literally 4 skills you can take for Deciphering (code). Those skills don't even cover creating Cyphers, you'd need a separate one for that.
Ron Edwards
1. I remember watching some television show back in the 90s. The main girl was dating a D&D player and she tried playing it. She was bored to tears. He said to her, "You have to gain a level before truly appreciating the game" and she said "How long does that take?" He replied, "6 months."
2. I don't remember reading about "Zilchplay." What article(s) discuss it?
3. They definitely meant it in the, "I think this is how the real world works." I agree that there is no way to really understand what they think that means.
I'm asking because I don't think I've ever encountered Sim play before. I've experienced Gamism (obviously). I've played Spirit of the Century and read several other Narr games. I don't really understand what Sim play is. If this is Sim play, I want to understand what the appeal is for them and how I can participate in making the game more fun.
Currently, I'm only playing because my friend really wants me to. It's a good place to get some work done and the place we game has wifi, so it's really no sweat off my back. (Although, if I wasn't working, I'd find the whole thing dreadfully boring.)
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