How about some love for Sex?
hix:
Sex and Sorcery introduces the concepts of Lines and Veils, right? I use those constantly - in fact, I brought them up at our Bliss Stage planning session last night. My regular Tuesday night group has been much improved by applying lines and veils, and I've had some great one-off and convention game experiences where the group has used them to introduce unpleasant stuff into the fiction - points where it felt absolutely necessary that the story needed to go somewhere dark. The idea of introducing that stuff but not showing it actually gave the story a lot of weight.
I also think the Lines and Veils concepts are great for building trust and helping people communicate. All in all, I think they are freaking essential.
The Dragon Master:
Jesse: I could be mistaken but from what I know of John Wick, and his opinion of The Forge (or for that matter anyone who thinks about the question of what makes gaming fun), I'd say it is highly unlikely that he has even touched a copy of Sex and Sorcery. What is it about the LARP that makes you think of that diagram?
Ron Edwards:
Some history seems necessary here.
Tony, John Wick was one of the primary interacting members of the community that birthed the Forge, nearly a co-founder of some important parts. He participated in the discussions at the Gaming Outpost, RPG.net, and then here when we started the forum; he exemplified the success of independent publishing with Orkworld, including his publisher forum here which you can see in the inactive forums section; he is a fan of Sorcerer, and participated at the first Sorcerer booth in 2001; his dialogues with me helped shape the GenCon Forge booth for 2002; and on and on.
Whatever identity politics you're perceiving or mis-perceiving clearly don't indicate anything conceptually important in terms of game preferences or design of their parts. I'm interested in the LARP question too, but I don't think that there's much point to positing some kind of deep divide or feud, then positing a further implication about what games should or shouldn't share affinities or illustrate possible influences. That's two steps of fantasy away from talking about things as they are.
Best, Ron
The Dragon Master:
I never would have guessed any of that based on my interactions with him at our game over the last year. But that entire issue is in fact a side point to the main thread here, and I'm sorry for the possible derail of the thread.
Ron Edwards:
Hi Tony,
It's no big deal. Whatever people say about one another, or me specifically, they can say. My concern is only that the actual history not be lost.
Your question does interest me, not in an oh-mi-god way but out of simple design curiosity - so Jesse, what are the specific features of the LARP which resonate with the text?
Looking over my first post, I'm not sure if I quite managed to get the purpose of the thread articulated. The idea was not to state or testify one's love for Sex here (although discussion about it is welcome; the stuff is interesting), but rather to keep in mind that it's good to speak up in favor of the text's strengths elsewhere when it's relevant.
Best, Ron
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