I hate compromises
greyorm:
Quote from: Filip Luszczyk on March 05, 2010, 09:13:05 AM
Either way, somehow, I'm not coming across such players. I'm starting to wonder if it might be some strictly cultural thing.
Is writing cooperative (or round-robin) fiction a thing restricted by culture?
Does your culture not have troupes of improv actors?
That's the sort of activity we're talking about here, and such activity isn't something rare, special, or unusual, especially among creatives! So I really don't know what to say about your belief that the only groups that can compromise quickly or while having mutual fun are composed of passive, non-involved individuals? That's pretty much the opposite my experience and perceptions.
So there is this cooperative/mutualist mindset necessary for easy/successful resolution compromise-based mechanics, and I don't know if as a result of their gaming history or just their place/time in life or what, but it sounds to me like you have a bunch of argumentative players who don't what to behave like in a mutual creative enterprise, or who are afraid of creative mutualism (you mentioned there is a concern they are getting the short end of the stick in compromises) perhaps because they've been burned in the past?
Can you tell us more about these players: are they high-school or college-age kids? Are they argumentative outside of gaming (for example, is ordering pizzas a twenty-minute affair) or otherwise have strong individualist tendencies? What other games do they play regularly and have they played? Have they mentioned or have you seen a lot of dysfunction in their past groups or past games?
JoyWriter:
Fillip, I wonder does an new set of criteria come out when you're asked about compromise? I mean do you and other people in your group suddenly get more picky because someone is asking your opinion? I've seen that happen before in very different contexts; offer certain people a choice and they'll leap on it, and hold you there for hours, but if you suggest one option out of say 10, (with a bit of undecidedness but without explicitly mentioning it's up to them) they will quickly agree to one of those ten!
Ben Lehman:
I don't think it's cultural. Filip's experience basically mirrors mine (well, not specifically wrt Burning _, but in that games that require a group compromise and group consensus are hard and frustrating to play.) The development process for both Polaris and Bliss Stage involved eliminating most or all instances of group compromise from play.
yrs--
--Ben
Callan S.:
Raven, from the account they seem to work fine and have fun/uninterupted fun if there is a default mechanism. The addition of the default mechanism makes the shoe fit their collective foot, so to speak. But you keep seeming to want to delve into some problem or thing with the group, as if rather than having a default added or involved, it's the group that should fix itself? Like instead of adding this small bit of mechanics, which seems to work well for them, actually they should change themselves to fit the game? To me this seems to be making the foot fit the shoe, as if it's the foots fault or job or role to be the right size for the shoe?
Also I'm not sure actors are a great example of people who aren't into following other peoples scripts. I know improv can make a scene hilarious or nifty, but it can do so while not changing some greater script in the least.
greyorm:
Callan, I've turned back to the group because Filip's response to my procedural questions appeared to indicate he thought it was a group thing, too (hence his statements about it being cultural, the dismissal of my questions along the lines of "making the shoe fit the foot"). So I'm trying to figure out why the group responds like this to compromise situations in order to suggest or help spur solutions that will work for them. And now I must ask you: why do you want to completely divorce group dynamics from the solution?
Re: the "actors" bit, please note exactly what the context of that was, what it was a response to, before you start jumping all over whether actors do this or actors do that, or Hollywood sucks and so therefore acting is bad thing to bring up, etc: it was an example for a response to the idea that "creatives can't engage in mutualism/they can but its cultural" and the intent of the example should be pretty clear given the other example of cooperative fiction writing.
(Note: I'm talking about improv theater, not an actor who improvs a line in a play -- even though that is also a good example as it requires compromise between writer and actor: "Ok, this is going to happen, but I'm going to say it this way, instead." or "So I have to leave, but I'm going to exit to the right instead of the left, and knock over the flower vase.")
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