In-Fiction Sexual Exploitation: blarrrrgh
mark2v:
2 quick observations:
First, I doubt this would have happened if there were an actual female player at the table.
I have been lucky to Gm several female players over the years, and I find the behavior at the table is socially much different then when they are not there.
I remember an old ADND game where a player playing a male warrior, was going to kill an NPC that had taken an interest in a female played by a female Priestess in our group. The female player turned to the other player and in character said (paraphrasing now it has been years.) “If I were going to chose you to share my time with you would already have been told. You have no reason to threaten this man beyond your own ego, be gone.”
It was classic, and no one ever stepped into that narrative territory at the table again.
Second, if I play with a new group I am on my best behavior, but some people don’t have that in them.
Some people are immature and have a hard time grasping social situations, and RPG’s in general.
I’m not sure if at any point you said, “I am not cool with this so knock it off.” In my opinion you should not have to.
I am also of the feeling the gm should not have to say, “Ok guys, play nice and don’t humiliate other people’s characters.” Under the circumstances the GM should have told him to stop the mind control on other players right from the start.
There are players who play just to goof off like that, and it is their social expectation that doing goofy immature crap is how the games are played. People who like their RPG’s more mature should avoid that other clique of players as much as possible. No rule or explicit social contract is going to change some one else’s view of what an RPG is.
Finally, some people are just turds who saddly think that sort of thing is funny.
Ar Kayon:
To the OP,
Dude, if you play RPGs at all, you're a nerd. Plain and simple. And we, as nerds, love to fantasize about ass we (well, maybe everyone else but me) can't get. It's especially lulzy if we mess with you because you chose to play a female character.
If it's too juvenile, you're too old. Start practicing checkers.
On a more fundamental level, it seems you have hangups with male group behavior.
Also, don't be so quick to disregard a woman's propensity for vulgarity. For example, I went to brunch two days ago with 4 women. We drank like sailors for 7 hours, talked about fisting, strap-ons and anal sex, and made fun of people at other tables. And then one of the girls broke her leg and cleverly used that as a way to lay on me during the car ride home and feel me up. Honestly, I'm surprised we didn't pull out battle axes and swords and slay ogres afterwards.
Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that drinking is really fun.
Ron Edwards:
This is a moderator post.
Everyone, there will be no more posts here to explain to James how he's supposed to be looking at this situation. He knows how he looks at it. This isn't an opinion-poll about how you view women, sex, tits, or actions toward female characters. What it is, and again, this is from the content moderator, is about how mismatched expectations about how to treat one another's characters arise. The sexual content is a red herring and the posts need to stop getting distracted by it; I include James in that as well as everyone else.
Ar Kayon, your post is flatly unacceptable here. Not only are you posturing about your guy-ness rather than engage with the topic, but you directly insult James as a person, twice. Posts here can be quite sexually and socially explicit because I'm a vulgar person, but posturing and insults are flat out. Do not post to reply to me.
James, let me know whether you think this thread has any reason to continue. I think there have been some (few) interesting points to follow up on, but the call is yours.
Best, Ron
James_Nostack:
Ron, your account of the in-character violence way-back-when sounds pretty similar, structurally.
We had a moment of potentially scandalous inter-character violence like that maybe a year ago in an early-edition D&D game, where one member of the party punched another one, basically for disagreeing in-character. It was an eye-opening moment! We knew the player pretty well and knew he didn't mean anything serious by it, but it sure sent a message (especially to my character, who was a spectator but only had 1 hit point) - "Do not fuck with the dwarf, he'll mess you up!" So that actually became kind of a nice bit of tension in the group because we trusted each other to handle it appropriately. (Though, come to think of it, the victim's player was relatively new to the group and I can't remember if he stopped coming after that... Hmm!)
I think this thread served its purpose (more or less), but I am genuinely curious about one thing:
There were a few people posting here who were saying (I'm paraphrasing!) "Hey, if strangers sit down at my table, I am perfectly willing to their shit up, with or without their consent, with or without prior notice. It's on them to object." And I guess my question is, "Really? Are you that way in other parts of your life too? If not, why's gaming unique in this regard?"
I say this because - as my explanation and Ron's anecdote make plain, there are all kinds of reasons that someone might not object. For example: if I speak up, will any of the other players back me up? If I speak up, what if it only makes things worse? Etc etc. If this behavior correlates with a social power gradient, placing the entirety of the burden on the aggrieved party pretty much means that you're going to get under-reporting, because the very people likely to be victims (not saying I was a victim of much, just frustrated) are the people who will be least effective at getting redress.
Ar Kayon:
Ok, this is something I can respond to objectively.
Normal people will respond positively to an appropriate level of objection. It's still good to be judicious with your tone so things don't get awkward, but they'll generally realize their social faux pas and adjust accordingly.
If you object to a spectacular asshole, however, things will quickly go downhill. They will almost certainly be goaded into harassing you further. From my experiences, there are two effective ways to deal with this type:
1. Since you can't completely ignore him in a gaming session without giving yourself away, give him as little feedback/reaction as you possibly can. Fires need oxygen to burn, and he'll fuck off if you don't throw ammo at him.
2. Throw it back at him. Try to outwit him, and your social experience will both be competitive and enjoyable and he'll be disinclined to antagonize you. This is the best way to establish an invisible line of respect, and then later on, he may be more receptive and you'll have safe passage to make your objections.
In my opinion, you handled the session very well up until after you made the suggestion for him to reside in your boot (throwing it back at him; well done). But then you exposed your emotions, changing the tone of everything (it seems like you objected much louder with your actions than you could have by just saying it), and it could have negatively affected your integrity with all of your gaming buddies.
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