[Legendary Lives] Three games to talk about
David Berg:
Quote from: JoyWriter on April 16, 2010, 06:50:13 PM
the tactics and choices that players make, though directed to a mundane end are so twisted by the mechanisms of the system/the dynamics of the challenges, that they end up reproducing the same interesting effects as if people were doing weird throws.
Huh. I get this only in the abstract. Can anyone share an AP example of this in action?
The Lying and Sincerity rolls in this Legendary Lives game weren't covered in enough detail for me to grasp it there.
I can think of tons of examples where a game system guided and inspired me to throw the ball weirdly, but none where it did that for me.
JoyWriter:
Sadly most of my actual play for that is second-hand and woolly, I've been trying to recall information about this vampire larp where the GM did this role between players; where they twisted and obstructed everyone's strategies so they were forced to play clever and political (including playing along with the characterisations done by other players) to have any chance of success in a pretty straightforward feud. I can't remember enough of the detail of that to really get into it, but if there were systematic rules to how people do that kind of thing, then perhaps it can be done as a default rules requirement, leaving the GM to just follow the rules and enjoy what the people are flinging back at him.
Maybe someone else can give a clearer example?
Ron Edwards:
Hi David,
I'm sorry to say that your post left me semi-shocked into silence. I really don't know where to start, although your point goes a really long way to clarify for me why our exchanges here have required such detail.
Don't get me wrong - they were all productive and fun threads. My point is that now I understand better why certain things I was writing seemed to me to be bouncing off some kind of wall. I'm glad you posted it because it may prompt a very useful discussion - essentially the heart of "system does matter."
I'll try to reconstruct the sequence of various Lying and Sincerity rolls in our session, because I think it will be a good example for you. If one of the other players could post too, that would be excellent.
Best, Ron
David Berg:
Hi Ron,
Cool. Looking forward to it.
Regarding my last post, I hope my "guiding" vs "doing (bouncily)" distinction won't lead us down a road of semantic fuzziness. I've been trying to think up better terms, but no luck thus far.
Possibly relevant: personally, I tend to like guidance-oriented play procedures. Randomly picking words in Sign in Stranger, interpreting cards in Ganakagok, mapping dice color to fictional color in PIE -- these all get me more excited than any succeed/fail task resolution mechanics I can think of (e.g.).
As for a larger-scale disconnect between us, I'm curious about what you're seeing. I can't put a finger on it, myself.
Ps,
-David
Larry L.:
Ron,
I've been trying to reconstruct some of the "social" contests for a few days now. I remember observing at the table that these were pretty nifty, but I can't recall exactly why these were more interesting than what has been described above. Which honestly sounds like every other system with a skill for "diplomacy" and what not. Gootch had pretty excellent scores in most of these skills, so I used them a fair amount.
If it jogs your memory, one such exchange was used when I convinced Ben's guy I didn't have anything to do with the dead serpentine, despite having the bloody murder weapon right there in my hand. There were a couple amusing interactions with that hapless Hob. Another was when I was trying to talk Ben into "loaning" me all his money.
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