[3:16] Does It Encourage "We didn't roll the dice for three sessions!" Behavior?
greyorm:
We don't play as much as I'd like, probably once or twice a month on average, but 3:16 has been the "go to" game for our group for quite a while now, and a session always receives positive commentary from the players and how much they love it. I still have a couple of issues with understanding the intended running of the game, but the one I want to talk about is "It isn't about the missions."
We've run through, I think, five planets over probably 7-8 sessions of around two hours each, and frankly, I don't get it.
Quick overview: The characters are still sergeants or troopers (no one is gunning for advancement), in charge of two squads. Only a couple of Strengths have been used, and the planets have been a push-over so far (I'm going to increase tokens in future missions, probably by 3-5). Beyond their decimated squads, other interactions so-far have only been with their lieutenant, some other troopers, and a captain.
The game before last ended with the 3:16's capital ship drifting crippled and nearly dead in a field of molten debris -- what's left of the planet they'd just invaded, whose rock-man inhabitants deliberately detonated the planetary core when the troopers infiltrated the highest level of their base. The capital ship was already damaged by an invasion of shadow things from the system's asteroid belt and took the brunt of the blast wave, so this took it out completely.
This session, I meant to run a game of "fix the ship" -- no mission and threat tokens and so forth involved -- but I couldn't figure out how to make it pop without them getting to shoot at shit, or roll some dice for some important stuff, or whatever. And frankly, I don't want to play in a game that consists of "We didn't roll the dice for three sessions!"* stylings. (Seriously, fuck that. Boring.) So instead I just ran another planet, which was cool with everyone.
* For those unfamiliar with my meaning: there is an old idea in the hobby that makes out "role-playing" (ie: in-character acting and talking with NPCs etc) to be the holy grail of play, demeaning die-rolling and various character activities (that are not role-playing or amateur pseudo-thespianism) as some boring shit you occasionally have to do that if you're REALLY good and awesome, you can completely avoid.
So, I don't get it. "It" being "It's not about the missions". It's not about the missions, but the game doesn't provide a mechanical framework for it to NOT be about the missions; all the interesting mechanical stuff to play with (threat tokens, wounds, choosing stat to roll, etc) is only there for use with missions. Which means it seems the game, by claiming it isn't about missions, is literally encouraging "we didn't roll the dice for three sessions!"-type thinking/play.
What am I missing?
Callan S.:
I would have thought that's refering to a morality level - ie, it's not about THAT I'm killing you, it's about WHY I'm killing you. The deed and the reason for the deed are seperate things. It's not about the deed.
But heck, I've seen things said taken a heck of alot of ways (I'm sure Ron could say some things about 'conflict resolution', for example), so I dunno.
Gregor Hutton:
It reads to me that you are still way early in your campaign and the players are totally enjoying it being about the missions. So I'd keep at that. I mean five planets in and only a few Strengths used seems early to me. Have there be any Weaknesses? When they _have_ to start using Weaknesses to save their character's skin then I find they feel some "heat".
If I were running it i'd not be getting hot feet at all and trying to move it to "it's not about the missions" stuff. Just keep playing fun missions. Enjoy it. Pick stiff AAs, meaner alien special abilities (Ambush, Induce Weakness, Lasting Wounds, Exploding Bodies) and don't worry about forcing a story or a point to play.
I'd just have got them to make some NFA rolls to help fix the ship and then hit them with another mission. Maybe raiding a planet for ore to patch up the ship? You did that: "So instead I just ran another planet, which was cool with everyone."
I think the rulebook says throw in something that will cause the players to think outside the missions every fourth mission or so. They might bite at, or maybe not. But it's designed that you can happily play bug-killing macho stuff for a lot of missions if you want to.
If a group plays like that all the way to Hatred For Home that is perfectly cool. By the time someone gets that far the GM is very close to being able to combine Special Abilities and bring back in some of your favourite aliens. (The rock guys "stoning" Terra in revenge would be totally on my list of things to do.)
Paul Czege:
I had a pretty inspired take-away from an IM conversation with Sean "Calithena" Stidd a few weeks ago about OD&D and early RPGs. One of the characteristics of the games is that players were often pretty chuffed by "we didn't roll the dice once" sessions. And I realized that whether it was a conscious design goal or not, the games have an interesting design paradigm that works toward the desired "didn't roll dice" session over time. Modern indie games front-load a player's engagement with the thematic material of play by making it a requirement going into chargen. (Ron says this all the time: that players have to want to play "this game" with "these people" from the outset.) OD&D and early RPGs were different. They gave players something to do (kill shit, level up, complete quests, etc.) that was maybe adventurous but not particularly thematic, and then sometimes, over time, players developed through play a deeper affinity for their characters, and as a result, a knowledge of what they wanted to do thematically with them. And then you get the all roleplay, all character drama sessions, because play has moved beyond the system of the game text.
So from the thread title I was thinking this was going to be a conversation about "didn't roll dice" as a design goal. Not that it aims to, but I don't think 3:16 delivers on it. I think partly because the system of the game text doesn't drive enough of a diversity of character activities to the mission-based play. There would need to be missions about setting up field hospitals, evacuating civilians, repairing damaged vessels (natch), avoiding battles you can't win, escorting politicians, etc. (Perhaps OD&D doesn't have this either, and the necessary diversity came about from gamer culture extending the game.) And there would need to be less of an either/or manichaean relationship between the character and the good/evil of the war. Because right now you end up either a dumb grunt, a sociopath, dead, or a tragic idealist, all of which make the same thematic statement about war.
greyorm:
I've been on the road since 9am this morning, so pretty wiped out right now, but if someone wants to push the thread in that direction, Paul, I'm all for it! Regardless, I'll get onto other replies and further discussion myself after some decent sleep. Sorry, all.
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