[7th Sea] Problem Solving versus(?) other Roleplaying things
Callan S.:
Hi again,
I've had a look at BRS, and basically at this point in it's development I think it shoots any play to win in the foot
Quote
It’s a rule of the game that every player is responsible for embedding their mechanical choices in the fiction according to the story aesthetic appropriate to your group. Failing to do so not only produces lame play, it’s against the rules.
Again it's the usual gamer blindness confusing their own individual perception of spoken fiction as being a galactic standard on what is 'aesthetically appropriate', so they don't see it's just that Jim and Mel follow the Wally feels on things and it's Wally who decides what can happen because he's grabbed those votes, not some sort of 'aesthetic' that's adhered to. That's not play to win - it's not like trying to jump over a hurdle, it's like trying to jump over a hurdle that Wally will raise or lower on his little whim of whether he wants you to win.
The worst bit? It's actually made this rubbish perception a rule. Can't get around it without falling right back into the lap of 'Oh, lets just ignore the rules and do what feels good from moment to moment'.
It even says that mechanics must be called on in a way that fits the fiction.
The only way anyone is going to have their imaginations at all challenged is when mechanics come first. Otherwise it's another walk in the echo chamber. Maybe they don't want how they imagine to face rattling change via brutal contact with reality every single second of play, fair enough. But if mechanics don't come first in even part of play, it's a complete echo chamber.
Would they want to hear that on the ramshead forum? Ironically I bet alot of people would 'stand up' on the forum to block out hearing it. It wouldn't be any sort of design discussion. Maybe I'll try anyway - I've wasted plenty of time doing so before, anyway...
dugfromthearth:
I've been playing Shadowrun and it is one of the few games where planning really makes a difference. Because it is essentially a caper game (like your robbery) instead of a combat game. So we have essentially unlimited options on how to deal with the problem, so planning is probably 90% of it.
A couple of problems we have:
1. determining what is likely or "realistic". We often think something like "a corporation would have a security camera in an area like that". But being fiction, the GM often has to have the enemies doing dumb things to make a game possible. So planning sometimes has to include meta-"if that were true there wouldn't be a game" sort of thinking.
2. the GM gets bored and interferes. Partly related to #1 - the GM often offers advice in our planning which really spoils things. Because he has no character offering advice, it is just the GM telling us what he wants us to do.
I find the planning to be a lot of fun because of the open thinking element. And it is one of the best times for roleplaying because nothing is critical at that point. So it is easy to have a more relaxed session.
Paul Czege:
Hey John,
For me the state of the art in mystery solving RPGs is Mutant City Blues. It's about solving crimes committed by super-powered mutants. Think NCIS meets Heroes. Here's what makes it work:
1. All of the core forensic clues necessary to solving the mystery are available to the players if they get their characters into the right fictional circumstances and ask for the clue. No die roll necessary. So, you're in the bedroom and you say, "Y'know, I'm going to check for psychic residue," or whatever, and if there's a clue from that you get it.
2. The various mutant powers and psychological aberrations are arranged in an elaborate web of relationships called the Quade Diagram. So you can draw conclusions about the perpetrator of a crime by using the diagram. "Gee, if he has invisibility he might also have voyeurism."
3. So the dynamic of play is a virtuous cycle of roleplaying interactions with NPCs and clue gathering and thinking about the Quade Diagram. These three activities inspire your thinking about who can satisfy the method, motive, and opportunity for committing the crime, and lead you back to more roleplayed interactions, clue gathering, and thinking about the Quade Diagram to confirm, until you figure it out. "Hmm, how do we figure out if Steve or Jason is a voyeur?" And sometimes there are fights.
Paul
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