Hi Ron Edwards, please ban me
Jim D.:
Ron, I'm going to try to provide my take on Chris's points; if it would be better served in another or split thread, or simply zapped, please let me know. Thanks!
I was on the receiving end of a reply from Simon C. which related to the system of task resolution I was using for my pet WIP. At first it seemed to be a scathing reply, essentially espousing that conflict resolution works better than task resolution, and that GM-defined target numbers for rolls was a failure
on principle.
Quote
Your comment about Conflict Resolution is revealing. Your game already has an implicit conflict resolution system. The system is "The GM decides". That's fine, but you may find it improves the experience of running and playing the game to provide guidelines to the GM for making those decisions.
I stared and got irate, and was about to type a vitriolic defense of my methods when it clicked: Simon wasn't trying to attack me! I had reasoning and it was sound, but it was critical to explain it to my target audience (ostensibly, the readers of my rulebook). Consider how conflict resolution works. Consider how your resolution rules are structured, how they make sense in your mind, and make damn sure you're telling people what conclusions you made to get there, perhaps enforcing them as rules, rather than expecting others to follow the same thought process blindly.
I confess that sometimes I have encountered a sort of thick-headed academic stuffiness, but it's comfortingly rare upon closer inspection of the comments I've received in my admittedly short tenure here. I have run into a couple of cases (and I won't name names) where a poster could benefit from the application of beginner mind -- that is, approaching the topic of discussion without preconceived notions. Essentially, that this block of "Forge knowledge" is immutable and inarguable. These cases are limited. "Official policy", if you can call it that, seems to be that this really isn't true, and that these concepts (GNS, the Big Model, Conflict vs. Task resolution, et al.) are less pure truths as much as teaching tools, guidance on different ways to think about a problem rather than the be-all and end-all classifications that they appear to be at first glance. I gain the most satisfaction from reading or participating in a discussion topic here if I don't just take home an answer to a question but rather something to chew on, a direction in which to think and make my own conclusions.
BunniRabbi:
I find the rationality of this thread encouraging.
Ron Edwards:
Hi everyone,
Here are some specific responses.
1. Chris (Ar Kayon, is that your name? Apologies for getting confused, and it also so happens that there are really a lot of Chrises here ...), ... gah, where was I.
OK, starting on a new line because I ellipsed myself into a corner. I don't have any history of trolling; what you're seeing is a combination of your second two suggestions. There's probably something psychological involved too, but whether it has a clinical name and whether I have a diagnosable case, I don't know.
Regarding the kind of dialogue which frustrates you, see my answer to Jim, up next.
2. Jim, I appreciate your comments. I agree fully with your observation that "beginner mind" should be valued more here and treated with respect. My call is, we're talking about someone who's worked most painfully through joining and understanding the issues discussed here. So the behavior in question is much like that of the older college student speaking down to new entrants (I am not drawing a direct analogy between universities and the Forge in every detail; I'm talking only about that particular behavior). And you're right - it's not all that common, but the target of it tends to get overwhelmed and to feel like everyone is backing up this one person against him or her, that this place is like that. (Simon, if you think I'm disrespecting you, say so, but I also think you should take a deep breath if you have to, and consider what Jim is saying.)
I ask that you do not hold back when talking about these issues. This is the right forum for it - name names and provide links. Say, "This is the post I got, this is the interaction, this is what it feels like, and please consider not doing this." I'm the content moderator, which includes courtesy, and especially intellectual courtesy. I will look at what you're talking about, judge it, and act accordingly.
Alternately ... and this is for everyone, seriously ...
Hit the fucking report post button! Write in the little comment, "hey, I am getting hammered and I don't appreciate it." You will not believe the ton of bricks I will drop on the guy you're talking to. I do not care if he has 9000 posts and talks like he owns the joint. He doesn't fucking own it; I do, and my first rule is, someone who's been here a while knows full well how to act.
The deal is, I do not have time to monitor First Thoughts. And it's becoming clear that a number of people are beginning to think it's their role to wax eloquent and act all knowing-like, and unfortunately, they serve as models for one another. I think this needs stopping in a big way.
But I can't do it unless you report it. If I think you're being whiny, then I'll say so, or we can at least work out a way to split the difference. But I bet that the majority of the time, I'll agree that you're getting the shaft.
3. BunniRabbi, this is a rational place. I invite you to head for the Actual Play forum and write about some of your role-playing experiences. It'll go a long way toward seeing what the Forge can do.
Best, Ron
Jim D.:
Ron, just so we're on the same page, Simon's critique was direct and to the point, if brusque. I think the fact that he did not treat my ideas with kid gloves got me to think, hard, about what I was doing, and it was most valuable. I spent some time trying to get my feelings hurt before I processed that we were engaging in a hard, logical debate -- you know, the exact thing I'm here for. He was attacking my ideas at their weak points, not me.
Granularity in Ad-Hoc Bonuses: Why +2 is better than +1
Ron Edwards:
That's great. I appreciate that you worked through the initial reaction.
But too many people do not. They feel not only marginalized by the person in the thread, but by the site. It used to be that every single person posting here knew that my first allegiance as moderator was to the newcomer. I don't think that knowledge has been the case for about four years. I'm trying to make that as clear as possible now.
Best, Ron
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