The Winter of the Forge looms near
Rafu:
Quote from: Moreno R. on November 02, 2010, 11:54:58 AM
But at the same time, I am worried about any change that would give the impression to people that the Forge is not THE place to talk about actual play and design anymore. Not because of forum rivalry or something stupid like that, but because.. well, there is still not any other forum that could take the Forge's place on that aspect (not even the one I am moderator of, I have no illusion about that). And after 5 years from the Forge Diaspora, this is not improving (rather the other way around)
If the war is over and "we" won, we no longer have the need for a citadel, don't you think? The time has come for all of the harbors and marketplaces of the world to become a little more like the Forge, instead of the Forge being a singular "special place".
Chris_Chinn:
Quote
Not because of forum rivalry or something stupid like that, but because.. well, there is still not any other forum that could take the Forge's place on that aspect (not even the one I am moderator of, I have no illusion about that). And after 5 years from the Forge Diaspora, this is not improving (rather the other way around)
Keeping discussion on focus is a difficult and very labor intensive thing- and so far, no one has come up with an alternative.
Secondarily, it's also a lot easier to get social reward by forming social forums around "We're excited about this thing!" than it is to build forums, educate people in treating it in a goal-oriented manner, and then having to be the moderator who constantly has to remind everyone to stay focused.
While a lot of people developed great networks of folks to design -with-, carrying over the lessons from the Forge for their own work, there hasn't been a lot of good passing along of that information to newcomers or to the public at large.
When the Forge finally does close, the real question is whether this understanding can be passed along or if it'll be a wheel folks will have to re-invent. (Several lessons, in terms of play, design, and publishing have been well absorbed already, so those will be fine, at least).
Chris
Christoph Boeckle:
Hello
Looking forward to the winter phase too! Ron, what do you mean by the "physical format more suited to 2010 rather than 1999" (my emphasis)?
Moreno R.:
At this moment, I am trying to explain the "4 seasons" concept to people in the Italian forums who never played Ars Magica and are still in the "the sky is falling, the forge will close at the end of the year" phase (but I have seen that it's a very common misconception even in the American forums). To explain how the concept apply to the Forge, Ron, what do you think was the transition from Spring to Summer? (I suppose Autumn started with the closing of the theory subforums, the site reorganization and the start of the "two year" policy at the Forge Booth)
@Rafu: the Forge never was a "Citadel", not a fortified and closed one at least. If Ron like the Ars Magica Covenant metaphor, I am not against the coming of the Winter. The problem is that I really don't see any other covenant like it not even in Spring phase. Most of the ones that started at the time of the diaspora become deranged like Calabais. So the Forge is still "a singular Special Place" by fact, not by my desire.
Ron Edwards:
Hi everyone,
The interview thread Moreno linked to has some text about this that I'll paraphrase here.
The beginning of Winter doesn't mean the end of the Forge. The end of the Winter is the end of the Forge.
Here's what I want to clarify about the content of Winter, which has only become clear in my own mind over the past few months.
1. The duration of Winter is not pre-set. Autumn lasted for three years, for instance, somewhat longer than I'd informally expected. I have no idea how long the Winter will be.
2. The activities during Winter will be much more directed toward the production of games, rather than merely musing and speculating about them. The bulk of the current function of First Thoughts will become off-topic for the site, so don't think that the new Development forum is merely combining First Thoughts and Playtesting. It's more like Playtesting without the absolutely strict playtesting requirement, instead with a concrete requirement in terms of available documents.
3. I'd like to encourage a focus on discovering and highlighting outstanding intellectual issues about role-playing, especially those which still seem problematic in the context of the Big Model, but not limited to that construction. I'd also like to encourage a more dedicated actual play discussion culture, in terms of discovering existing independent games which aren't well known, and in terms of playing older games with a critical eye. All those are good things as it stands in Actual Play, but I would like to see some great things. I also want to break the uncritical devotion to New Hawtness and Indie Designer Celebrity over my knee like a dry stick.
4. I would like to see some Endeavor forums really be exciting, and for people to learn from what works and what doesn't when organizing an on-line activity for our hobby. Obviously next year's Game Chef will be welcome again if the organizer wants, and we can use the same model perhaps to organize and add value to the Forge Midwest convention. Anyone can ask me and Vincent about setting up such a forum at any time; one of these forums' features is that they will have planned start and stop dates (with some flexibility in practice; things don't always go as planned).
5. I desperately want help in setting up the Forge Wiki we almost got going a few years back. What I have in mind is not a standard multi-user Wiki, but rather a means of understanding the ideas developed here through user-friendly explanations with organized linkage into the whole history of Forge threads. The Winter will be dedicated to making such a thing functional, perhaps including a Forge Forum specifically for bitching about the Wiki's contents once it gets going, not only for corrections purposes, but also so nuances and alternate views can be acknowledged as part of the resources too.
With any luck this will help alleviate the "sky is falling" reactions happening here and there.
Moreno, you asked about which phases are which seasons. I might have to go back and check a few time-periods on the Forge to be sure, but my current thinking is:
Spring: 2000-2004
Summer: 2004-2007
Autumn: 2007-2010
Winter: 2010-?
Very roughly, the conceptual transitional point in 2004, 2007, and 2010 could be placed in August, at GenCon, but that also means that by that point, the old season is showing its limitations and flaws, and the features of the new are becoming evident. As it happens, transitions in topics for intellectual development, waves of new arrivals and departures at the site, and distinct shifts in the culture of design all fall into those same rough transition points.
Also, using the seasonal terms doesn't have anything to do with Ars Magica. It's a pretty standard metaphor when talking about something which is born, delivers something, and passes away. I mean, sure, it's consistent with the Ars Magica usage, so I don't mind the connection, but it's not like I was directly inspired by that game.
Best, Ron
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