Using Tarot Cards in-game
talisman:
Hi everyone, I'm new. Long-time reader, first time poster.
Anyways, me and my brother have been playtesting a new game I've been developing, and when we playtest I pull tarot cards to help spontaneous roleplay. It helps alot with quickly answering questions as well as improvising roleplaying games. My question to you is:
Do Tarot cards put off too many people? My brother is insistent that too many people are offended by Tarot and will not play a game with Tarot cards in them. I say just the opposite and that having a niche market for a Tarot RPG game is a good idea. I'm even thinking of implementing the tarot into the actual game rules.
What do you guys think? Do you think having the rules reference a deck of Tarot cards is a bad idea? I don't know what to do and I'm at a crossroads here.
Ron Edwards:
Hi there and welcome,
Tarot cards have been employed in half-a-dozen RPGs, and Tarot-like decks made specially for a given game have been employed in at least a dozen more. You've asked a lot of questions in your post, but the basic one, "can this work," is clearly yes. And you knew that from your own play-experience anyway.
Let me break down what you're asking, a little bit. Your post kind of mixes and matches design and publishing questions in a way which is guaranteed to paralyze you. I recommend that you throw out strategic considerations of publishing for a while and concentrate solely on making a game which functions.
I will specify this a bit further. First, no one here can speak for some assumed trend or majority. The gaming world is full of blowhards claiming some kind of psychic link to the zeitgeist which you lack. Your brother has no such link. Neither do I. Neither does anyone posting here. Furthermore, the way you've phrased it - "put off too many people" - is irrelevant. Let's say that some majority percentage of role-players, 80% for example's sake, says, "Tarot, yuck!" - it wouldn't mean a thing for you. If the 20% remaining find your game good, then there you are, a ready-made audience and market. Consider yourself to be designing for (and one day selling to) only people who like the same ideas and modes of play which you like.
Your post unfortunately is not much more than an attempt at a poll. This is not a really good way to gain information or insight. I recommend instead describing exactly how the technique you have used has worked successfully in play. Until you do that, I'll provide a little feedback only to the extent that what you've posted reminds me of some existing games.
From the little you have said, it seems very much like the technique used in Everway, which included a custom "Fortune Deck" which was effectively a set of Tarot trumps although with interestingly-different meanings from the standard deck. In that game, you had the option to use the deck during resolution and also during certain plot moments, and there was also a pretty neat scenario-creating technique one might use as well. I also recommend checking out Story Cards, a more recent game that uses similar techniques in a more structured way.
As far as I can tell, you are currently merely speculating about folding the Tarot into the basic game mechanics. An older game which did this was called Oblivion: Ship of Fools, which had a pretty strong system. But I recommend not delving into this side of the design until you really nail down how you're currently using the cards, and how well it works, and how you might articulate and formalize that.
So ... one last thing. In a couple of days, I'll move this thread to the Game Development forum, where it'll fit better. No big deal.
Best, Ron
Finarvyn:
Quote from: talisman on December 11, 2010, 05:57:45 PM
Do Tarot cards put off too many people? My brother is insistent that too many people are offended by Tarot and will not play a game with Tarot cards in them.
My experience is that most gamers don't really "believe" that Tarot cards have any mystical qualities and as such have no issues with using Tarot cards in a game. At least, no more issues than using any other cards in a game.
When you ponder your game design, ask if the use of cards actually makes the game better or just different. The game Castle Falkenstein is one of the first I played with cards and the players thought it was cool at first but quickly tired of cards instead of dice. With cards you have to decide if each player gets his own deck, if there is a community deck, how often to shuffle, etc. I had some players in Falkenstein who were excellent card counters and would adjust their actions based on whether there were more high or low cards left, so I had to shuffle more frequently in order to make things random. If the cards do more than simply generate random numbers, you'll have to determine how to make them. Lots of potenrtial issues with a card-based game.
Callan S.:
Hi,
Rather than any sort of superstition, I find the implementation of pulling a card to 'answer a question' to be kind of like putting on a little glove puppet, then asking him to answer the question that came up in play, as if the glove puppet isn't you answering the question.
In terms of the card imagery simply providing some imaginative input that can help trigger you think of something when before you couldn't, I'll totally grant that works. Having elements that help feed creativity by my measure is an important element and tarot cards could work very well for that.
But trying to treat the cards as if they resolve things seems an exercise in glove puppetry, to me.
talisman:
Thanks for the replies guys. I'm definitely going to have to think about this one a bit. Probably, I'll keep using them as an improv aid. Here's what I do for improvised adventures:
First, establish a setting. (We started in a tavern.) Then draw a card. If i drew the Lovers card, it would mean a guy walks up to the bar with his girlfriend. If it was a knight, a fighter might walk in. And if I got the Hermit it would be a wizard (cause the guy looks like a wizard.) Abstract, yes, but it works for us.
An interesting mechanic you guys might like follows. We ask the game a yes or no question, and pull a card. If it's right-side up it means yes, if it's upside-down it means no. You can do this with a six-sider too. 4+ is a yes, 1-3 is a no. Does a guy walk in? Yes. Does he have a gun? No. Does he have a sword? Yes. Is he hostile? Yes. For this example we then roleplay if this angry swordsman bumps into us, or picks a fight with somebody, or what-have-you. We call this the "Fate Dice" system...
I'm aware this has been done before, I can't remember the name of the RPG. But using Tarot cards like this can give us more info than a simple yes or no. Hmm...this has given me something to think about. I'll get back to you guys on this.
-Mike
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