[Poison'd] Trying to understand Currency and Reward Systems
hix:
I'm going to restate Ron's post above, just to check I get what he's saying:
The key phrase seems to be, "Currency is the way certain game mechanics can be traded off among one another."
Using the Provisional Glossary and Vincent's post about "Things on a character sheet (2)", the categories of things that currency can be exchanged between include:
[x] Effectiveness, which seems to be about the character's ability to take action (in the Provisional Glossary, "quantities or terms which are directly used to determine the success or extent of a character's actions during play.") Some generic examples would be skill levels, stats, weapons you're currently armed with.
[x]Positioning, which I think covers the character's place in the world, their relationship with other people, and the amount they care about events (either what's happening right now or what they want to achieve in the future). Would I be right in saying that all of this can either be defined on the character sheet or exist purely in the fiction?
[x]Resources, which I'd describe as the character's ability to keep taking actions. The Provisional Glossary calls it, "an available quantity upon which Effectiveness or Positioning mechanics may draw, or which are reduced to reflect harm to the character." Some generic examples would be hit points and endurance.
[/list]
It feels like their might also be a fourth category: the character's position in the fictional world. This might be covered by 'Positioning', but in Vincent's post on Reliable and Unreliable currency he talks about having the advantage for higher ground. And that reminded me of some of the sort of D&D play Ron was talking about above with actions that don't require rolls, like moving successfully through the dungeon, or finding an undetectable spot to spy on the enemy.
... anyway, the way that changes in these 3 (or 4) areas affect each other is what currency is all about.
But based on the D&D and Tunnels and Trolls examples, it looks like current can either be 'easy to see' (the accumulation and spending of Xs in Poison'd) or 'hard to see' (everything that's involved in eventually levelling up a D&D character). Related to that, I wasn't quite sure what this means:
Quote
Now add the element of time, and it should become clear that the quantities of system in action are directly linked into the Currency as well.
I think this is talking about the number of 'inputs' that lead to gaining some currency. Sometimes it can be simple: In the Tunnels and Trolls example, a single input (the saving throw) leads to XP. In a D&D combat, there can be multiple inputs (skill checks, saving throws, numerous successful and unsuccessful to-hit rolls) that lead to defeating a monster that lead to XP.
If that's the case, then I think I get it. And I think I get how improvement mechanics and damage mechanics are different expressions of the idea of currency.
-- -- --
David, here's a simple way a character's stats change:
Before arresting him, the constables who were pursuing Hugh McMinn beat him brutally [he's suffered a new violence]. That means his Brutality increases from 6 to 7, as there's no upper limit to Brutality after character creation, and his Brinksmanship goes up to 7 as well.
Escaping from his captors would be tricky, and it's made even trickier when he rejects the Devil's offer of aid. So, Hugh is imprisoned [which is not a new violence for him], but his Profile drops to 1 (because in prison, of course, he's unarmed.)
Ron Edwards:
David and Steve in a thread - together? No! This is like seeing your mailman and Captain Midnight at the same time!
Android technology ... gotta be.
Anyway, Steve, I think you have stated it fairly. Positioning definitely includes larger-scale issues about the character, such as alignment in D&D or most setting-based information such as country of origin, and any number of similar things. Oh yes, and notably, many of common psychological descriptors (somewhat confusingly billed as "Disadvantages" or "Limitations" in many games). One of favorite my Positioning variables from the older versions of Champions were Public Identity, Secret Identity, and the very interesting option of having neither.
Best, Ron
David Berg:
Huh. Steve, apparently we've been tasked to collaboratively make Ron's brain explode.
Let's see:
Hugh's player's choice to reject the Devil's aid nabs him two Positions, "in prison" and "unarmed", the latter of which is recorded as a loss of Profile. Had Hugh's player chosen to accept the Devil's aid, Hugh might have kept his Profile and improved his Position to "free" but at the cost of... uh... what's the downside of accepting the Devil's aid? I'll just call it Devilness for now.
Anyway, so that's one level of the game's Currency system: the possible exchange between Position ("in prison"/"free"), Profile ("armed"/"unarmed") and Devilness in that moment, and between other Positions and game quantities in other moments. Right?
To the extent that Currency-manipulating mechanics are triggered by player decisions made based on the fiction (rather than, e.g., "It's my turn, I can do one of these 5 moves, I'll pick this one."), every iota of narration is Currency. If the GM narrates that the thug is yelling about revenge as he attacks, that gives me an opportunity to turn a crappy Fighting roll into an excellent Manipulation roll if I'm clever enough to re-position my character accordingly. "It was a cover-up!" I yell. "I'm after the real culprit too!" Hey, maybe I even earn XP for rolling Manipulation and not for Fighting!
Ron, any synapses auto-destructing yet?
lumpley:
The downside of making a bargain with the devil is that now the devil can mechanically smack you (with, I believe, the hardest smack in the game) if you don't hold up your end.
So, yes! The simple principle throughout is: mechanical causes have fictional effects, and fictional causes have mechanical effects.
Steve, the way I think of your proposed fourth category is that wholly fictional things can easily be part of effectiveness, resources, OR positioning. The fact that my character's at the top of the stairs looking down at yours might figure in effectiveness; the fact that mine's the loyal lieutenant of the mob boss and yours is a rookie cop might figure in positioning; it all depends on how the game's designed to treat those facts.
-Vincent
Ron Edwards:
Vincent's final paragraph is key. In some games, information like who's at the top of the stairs has a specific role to affect the way Currency-based stuff is currently distributed, and in others, it doesn't. When it does, then how that information gets there either has Currency-based ways to get into play, or it doesn't.
Vincent's more recent designs aim at nailing down both ends, for "yes it does" for each, but without relying on such explicit devices as in Universalis or more recently, Annalise.
Specifying and shaping the extent to which the fictional input may draw upon non-Currency sources, which is to say, "I do this," "I say so," "This happens" more or less out of the blue, is a very touchy topic. I think it is possible to provide such shaping-procedures in productive ways - Spione is an example, I think - and I think other designers have gone this route in a variety of ways.
My reading of many of Callan's posts and points leads me to think he is mainly criticizing play/games in which "it" (above) does have a specific role to affect existing Currency distribution, but doesn't have any Currency-based way to get into play. Instead, it gets into play just because a designated person says so, all the time, in an unconstructed fashion. So for Callan, the vast majority of what in most games is calling "GMing" is a flat-out disruptive interjection into what could otherwise be a solid Currency-interactive activity. it makes all Currency-based play into a kind of little kids' plastic steering wheel, and they get to turn it and go "Pbbbbt" while the GM actually drives the car. And I think he's right about that, actually, although we may differ regarding the extent of the problem, or whether it's present in, for example, my own games.
Best, Ron
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