[D&D 4e] Attrition in RPGs
Callan S.:
I still think that pivots on their also being something bad that happens if you go back to town to rest (like the pirate leaves). But other than that that seems a good play! Though under the original system the pirate could leave during the one night a player is away, a week or more of resting really, in an imaginative sense, leaves a ton of room for a bunch of not good things to happen! Possibly in terms of mechanics engaging imagination, your idea actually takes advantage of healing surge mechanics while the original really left very little room for imagination (one night). If D&D 4 is gamist, I think your idea ups the stakes (or atleast potentially does, see above) considerably more.
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Their benefit/time played decreases; we're real people with school and jobs, time matters.
It's interesting how this opens out onto overall life, as to it's significance. I mean, it's accumulation of benefit, by each player, more than who won something. It's about sitting on a really big pile of gold, or weapons (ouch, don't sit on them!), etc? Or am I way off?
Natespank:
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It's interesting how this opens out onto overall life, as to it's significance. I mean, it's accumulation of benefit, by each player, more than who won something. It's about sitting on a really big pile of gold, or weapons (ouch, don't sit on them!), etc? Or am I way off?
Well, suppose the players return to town after burning out and the next session they can choose between returning to the old dungeon for a boss fight, or they can get started on the slightly more important task of finding the buried treasure that their recent map fragment alludes to. It's a real choice, and they're welcome to return to the dungeon to try and finish off the boss (if he's still there), but they can also think that we only have time to play once a week and can't they spend the time better by moving forward? We're all in university, so it's a real question.
I was playing Torchlight/Diablo once when I realized I could sort of set my own pace by delving deeper into the dungeon faster. I died more, but my payoff per unit of time spent playing increased, and I didn't have time to spend a lifetime playing.
Uh, in short, yeah, it's about sitting on a massive pile of gold or whatever at the end without wasting days of real life revisiting old dungeons. Gamist games are about gaining and wielding power, so i guess instead of gold their "points" come from how much they can affect the world. They try to gain it efficiently.
Callan S.:
I guess it depends on whether getting to that old boss actually is...well, lets use a ratio of gold to real time minute to make it easier. It depends if the old boss has a lower GP/time ratio than the treasure chest. If he has a higher GP/time ratio, then really there is no lament about going back to town and missing out on rooms because your better off going back to them.
On going back to town, do you guys usually end the session at that point?
Natespank:
we'll try to end sessions in town, but we won't necessary end because we're in town. I can't over argue this though- sometimes it is worthwhile to go back. In those cases the mechanic at least allows some realism and some chance for the denizens to prepare for a return trip. Since I have a Fame system (not enough fame = dont get quests) maybe I could adjust fame rewards based on time... hmm...
Nathan P.:
Right on, I dig that use of surges as a kind of resource/pacing mechanism, and it sounds like it's doing what you want. In older D&D versions, it was usually on the GM's head to disrupt periods of rest (hence, wandering monsters and such) in order to create that sense of needing to choose when to return to a safe place vs. pushing on and achieving something. This seems much more elegant to me.
Quote from: Natespank on February 07, 2011, 03:14:51 PM
Gamist games are about gaining and wielding power, so i guess instead of gold their "points" come from how much they can affect the world. They try to gain it efficiently.
I'll put on my Big Model Pedant hat (it's dusty, I warn you). First off, creative agenda is an property of a person or a group of people, not a game text. Game text can support certain CAs over others, but it's the players that enact CA. Second, gamist play has come to be defined as "Social assessment of personal strategy and guts among the participants in the face of risk." So what's interesting here to me: how you've been treating attrition in your game seems bang-on aimed at gamist play, and then you start talking about the accumulation and use of power, which is totally orthagonal to creative agenda!
Does that make sense? This time/gold ratio, or whatever, may be interesting as some kind of metric that ties into whatever you're quest structure is, but it may be a red herring to get wrapped up in trying to make your game "more gamist" or whatever. I'd say, just try to make it more fun! I'm assuming that your players are on board and having a good time, of course. It's just really easy to add un-necessary elements to any design, especially when you're pursuing some kind of vague ideal.
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