[APEX] Free Universal System Feedback
Devon Oratz:
By the way, besides adding more dice, there's no reason that "superlative" characters can't use a d20, right?
Parylus:
Thanks for the feedback everyone! I'm going to make some adjustments to the systems based off of your feedback and then report in a bit later.
Jason J. Patterson:
Your system's basics are very much like Savage Worlds sans Wild Die, so probably Cortex or Serenity, though I only got to play Serenity once so I don't remember it very well. Not saying it's a bad thing, just confirming you confirmation; I'm running Savage Worlds games myself currently so while on one hand that's a plus for me, the only reason I DID finally decide to run SW was because of the Wild Die, allowing you two dice - I'm not at all a fan of single die systems so for me, this is not something I would likely consider for a go-to system. The only exception would be a very rules lite system like Broadsword or something where it is SO light that one die is fine because the whole system is nutshelled and not a whole lot, relatively, has been put into it. When you get all the modifiers and die type ranges, I just can't personally see my way clear to find a single die system satisfactory, so there is my bias, stated for warning.
Not a fan of site-based (as opposed to pdf) rules but the site does look good and pretty easy to navigate overall, though the actual basic task resolution and play mechanics are given in the Getting Started, rather than rules system link, which confused me, but that's likely just an organizational difference for me. I'm going to go in order of the links from left to right, top to bottom and comment as I go:
From your checklist, differentiation between Abilities and Perks are muddy; you read one section and say "Aha, the main part", and then you read the other and say "Aha... the... main part?" From a newcomer perspective it might not actually be as confusing, but for old hat gamers, you might want to actually just give us an aside and say "Things you know as attributes or skills would be in this category, while things you know as Advantages or Edges would be in this category" - abilities are basic things you can do, perks are special adeptness you have when doing certain basic things, right?
Not fond of the way you combined Perks and then the double-duty Quirks into one section, with Quirks being analogous to either Disadvantages or perhaps even Aspects or just simple flavor that have no in-game mechanical consideration. To me it feels like giving the thumbs up to writing "yes" in the space marked "eyes" on a form - technically correct but not really useful. I like your Ability list breakdown and descriptions and what you combined and made responsible for what activities.
Kudos on Crafting as a basic ability - I have to admit I don't know if I would have thought of it, and though I'm not sure it would be used much, I kinda like the idea of it being available as a basic Ability. Same for Husbandry though I'm iffy on it being tied to riding the horse. Deception and Influence, like with most games, are also iffy to me, as it is always a question as to where someone draws the line to break things into different types of influence - does it really MATTER if I'm being leader-like, a good bargainer, deceptive, seductive or genuine and humble? Not sure about the Athletics governing throwing and Marksmanship governing shooting, but I can kinda see it. Resolve is debatable but isn't it always, in game mechanics?
I have to say I have a bit of a problem with Street Smarts as usable for "dungeoneering" - it just seems too far removed from what is otherwise mostly a "get around the city, get information from people" skill. I see now your counterpart in Survival... symmetrical, but still, not sure I like that, but you do have to have it somewhere. So Street Smarts is Urban Survival+Dungeoneering for man-made dungeons and Survival is Rural Survival+Dungeoneering for natrual caves and the outdoors in general. Alright, if I look at it like that, I can accept it a litlte better - I think maybe Street Smarts seemed too loaded a term for me but probably fine for the average person.
Deception, Stealth and Thievery. Tough call on that, to me. I guess one is a person being visible and fooling someone into thinking something other than what they see, the second is the stealther being invisible and the foe not seeing what's there, and the last is... a very small-scale hybrid of the two?
Overall I have to say your Ability list is probably one of the top mash of attributes/skills into broad categories I've seen.
Looking this over, I might try a finished product, if the rest of the material is as relatively solid as this is, even though it only uses a single die. I honestly don't see me using it regularly but like others here, I'd probably tinker around with the mechanics at the very least, possibly hacking it to something more my direction, considering it is free for personal use.
A really good start I think.
Parylus:
Thanks so much for the feedback Jason! Very helpful!
I actually made some of the changes you mentioned prior to reading your post just now. For example, I removed the 'dungeoneering' aspect of Street Smarts and created a seperate Ability for that. I'll try to better describe the differences betweens Perks and Abilities, good call. It just didn't seem to fit, as I think we both agree. In response to the feedback from others suggesting a more favorable difficulty curve, I increased the frequency of higher die types in Hero abilities and removed the Talent as a priority. As for the idea of a two-dice vs one-die system, I think I kind of agree with you. It crossed my mind just to double up the Ability Dice. Instead of having an Agility of d10, you'd have an Agility of 2d10. The universal target number would double as well to 10. I'm fond of this idea because it gives a little more leway with modifier sizes.
Abilities would then be distributed as such:
•Assign 2 Primary Abilities – 2d12
•Assign 3 Secondary Abilities – 2d10
•Assign 5 Tertiary Abilities – 2d8
•The Remaining Abilities are Untrained – 2d6
Resistances would be derrived as such:
•Reaction (Agility Die Type +2)
•Defense (Close Combat Die Type +2)
•Ect
Advanced Abilities would go by bonuses then. Raising an Ability a step above 2d12 would go to 2d12+2, then 2d12+4, and so on, up to +8.
Anyone have an opinion on that?
As for the comments about Deception vs. Influence, I wanted to split up social abilities at least once, so I figured Influence would represented confidense and being yourself to win people over (heartfelt, honest, genuine, and naturally charismatic), while Deception represented false sincerity or being someone you're not (manipulative, lying, ingenuine, or falsely charismatic). It makes pretty good sense to me.
For Athletics or Marksmanship governming throwing weapons, it's a little iffy to me too, but I think I made the right choice. Marksmanship has to do with aim and steadyness when using projectile weapons. Athletics has to do with muscle power and, in this case, eye-hand coordination (a bit of a stretch, I know).
Deception, Stealth, Thievery? Split up, but easy to tell the difference I feel. Deception is a social skill, Stealth refers to movement and hiding, Thievery is delicate, dextrous hand-skills like picking locks and picking pockets. Feels right to me.
I'm curious about your issue with combining Perks and Quirks under a single headinh. It doesn't seem like you have an issue with Perks, but you're not fond of the way Quirks have no ingame impact?
Parylus:
Quick note on the dice probabilities. The curve looks good for doubling up the dice. Check it out:
Against the Universal Target Number of 10
2d6 16%
2d8 43%
2d10 64%
2d12 75%
2d12+2 85% (Available at Tier 2 / Level 6)
2d12+4 93% (Available at Tier 3 / Level 11)
2d12+6 97% (Available at Tier 4 / Level 16)
I'm pretty sure this is the direction I'll go in, given the decent curve and appeal of a non-single-die system. Any comments?
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