[The Secret Lives of Serial Killers] Ronnies feedback
Elizabeth:
Ian, I don't have much to add, except that your post desperately makes me want to see a reverse Secret Lives Of Serial Killers, a la the game Braid, where the surprise isn't finding out the loveable guy is actually going to kill you, it's finding out you aren't a lovable loner, you're a creepy dangerous dude.
Larry L.:
If we're going to get into referencing what has come before, I think Vampires: a postmodern roleplaying game should be mentioned. That game also had a fake game text for the real "gotcha" game, and was similarly better suited as a thought experiment for discussion, as actually playing it would probably involve a serious abuse of trust between participants.
I think Willow's effort is rather punchier, though.
I do hope no one actually tries to play this. Nonetheless, it is way too much fun to dream up things to do around making "Sunshine Boulevard" book.
Ron Edwards:
Callan, I'll leave the discussion of the game's integrity to Willow.
As far as promoting the paintball practice* via the award is concerned, I disagree with you about the award and this game, but I do think you're raising a valid issue and I do not want to give the impression I'm ignoring it, or disagreeing with you on a more general level.
Best, Ron
* Holy shit!
Devon Oratz:
Quote from: Callan S. on February 12, 2011, 03:21:10 PM
I think the question to ask as an author is at what point have I ceased to satirise a certain practice and am instead just literally practicing it and promoting it's practice?
Why is there going to be any gut punch? I mean clearly you can get humans to march other humans into ovens, if you normalise the practice enough. There's only going to be a gut punch here if you already subscribe to the philosophy that it sucks. I've heard accounts of guys who, without prior notice of the practice, shoot a new player under the table with a paint gun, so they know what it's like when their character was hit by a bullet. There will be no gut punch for these people. The only gut punch will be for those who already subscribe to the idea this sucks. This either perpetuates the practice supposedly satirised, or simply speaks to an echo chamber.
I just see this as another document that normalises this particular practice (and that document being promoted here).
What precisely do you think is the practice being satirized or normalized here? I think you may be engaging with this material on a much different level than I am.
Eero Tuovinen:
Quote from: Devon Oratz on February 13, 2011, 12:07:25 PM
What precisely do you think is the practice being satirized or normalized here? I think you may be engaging with this material on a much different level than I am.
That certainly seems to be the case. Callan's discussing the same thing Ron is, abusive GM authority. As Callan says, this game will only be interpreted as a gut punch if you already are bothered by the idea of objectifying your co-players in the manner proposed by the game.
For what it's worth, I'd share Callan's concerns about promotion vs. satire if authorial intent weren't ultimately meaningless - people read texts according to their expectations, and I can totally see how certain segments of the rpg community will see nothing strange in this game. There are plenty of designers (larpers, especially) I've met who wouldn't blink an eye at the idea of introducing a game under false tenets, with the expectation that immersive discipline (what makes you a good roleplayer in certain circles) will ensure that the players will follow the internal logic of the fiction wherever it leads, no matter whether they'd personally choose to take the game to those directions or not. How this particular game is written right now, or might be written for a serious release, has much less to do with the way a person might interpret it than their own understanding of roleplaying has; there are vast communities of play that would condemn this type of game, just as there are those that would consider this level of GM control over the game's nature a necessity for really getting an appropriate level of immersion to emerge.
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