[The Secret Lives of Serial Killers] Ronnies feedback
Callan S.:
Quote from: Devon Oratz on February 13, 2011, 12:07:25 PM
What precisely do you think is the practice being satirized or normalized here? I think you may be engaging with this material on a much different level than I am.
I think I'd ask the other way around, when do you cease to call something a prank?
I'm just wondering what sort of act it'd take for you to say "Shit, it's not a game or a prank to do THAT!"?
I'm not asking in a way that insists you say the same as me. I'm just wondering if someone puts something in an RPG, you'll just accept that as being something that is a game. Because it's in a game.
I had this convoluted example I was going to use before but didn't for convolutedness. In it I was going to have an RPG perhaps around a theme of some inhumanly gentlemanly guy romancing a lady, ala mills and boon or twilight. But here's the fun twist, aye, you invite a female player and latter in the game you actually touch her on her real life boobs, just out of the blue. It's a rule that you have to! Ha, she totally thought it was romance but here you are, hand on boob! Ka-pow, gut punch!
It's funny how defensive people (perhaps Willow as well) would probably get about five pounds of fat (with a nipple on it) being touched. Shit, man, that'd be socially apocalyptic! "Nothing to do with games, your assaulting her!" I'm second guessing the emotional responce.
Five pounds of fat with a nipple on it get this much reaction. When you think emotions and trust, which are a bit fucking closer to home...well, because you can't touch them, you don't value what you can't touch, aye?
Is there going to be another round of Ronnies? Maybe I'll try and sneak in project tit squeeze...
Oh, and I found a link to the paintball story (near bottom of page): http://forum.rpg.net/printthread.php?t=194252&pp=10&page=20
Willow:
Callan, I appreciate that you disapprove of Secret Lives. It is not supposed to be a game that is nice. And yes, it's rather abusive of the 'victim' player.
However, you compared it to physical assault (shooting someone with a paintball gun), sexual assault (groping someone's boob), and even the frickin' Holocaust* (systematically shoving people into ovens). Don't you think these comparisons maybe go a little too far?
Other people have mentioned that they would enjoy- well probably not enjoy, but appreciate, in retrospect- this experience, were they the victim player.
*Which, by the way, gives me an idea for a Holocaust LARP.
Devon Oratz:
Godwin's much?
Quote
I had this convoluted example I was going to use before but didn't for convolutedness. In it I was going to have an RPG perhaps around a theme of some inhumanly gentlemanly guy romancing a lady, ala mills and boon or twilight. But here's the fun twist, aye, you invite a female player and latter in the game you actually touch her on her real life boobs, just out of the blue. It's a rule that you have to! Ha, she totally thought it was romance but here you are, hand on boob! Ka-pow, gut punch!
"Real life boobs", lol. Anyway I'm not particularly shocked or offended by this either, but...if you're asking, hypothetically speaking, where to draw the line, that's pretty obvious. Unwanted physical contact. Yes, emotions and feelings are important, but how much can someone really get to YOUR emotions and feelings through a character? As probably the most hardcore, full-immersion roleplayer I know, even I think that the damage that can be done this way is very limited.
"If you roll all 1s, you get actually physically raped, in life" is a horse of a different color, but then again I'd be more afraid of the people who would play by that rule than the person who wrote it.
(Immediately I am given an idea for a tabletop RPG mechanic that involves punching people in the arm, really hard. Of course, this would have to be an up-front mechanic because, well, see above.)
Paolo D.:
Quote from: Willow on February 17, 2011, 06:41:39 AM
Other people have mentioned that they would enjoy- well probably not enjoy, but appreciate, in retrospect- this experience, were they the victim player.
Actually, I could have some names in mind.
Yes, people that search "abusive" games, deliberately, to enjoy them.
Callan S.:
Quote from: Willow on February 17, 2011, 06:41:39 AM
Callan, I appreciate that you disapprove of Secret Lives. It is not supposed to be a game that is nice. And yes, it's rather abusive of the 'victim' player.
However, you compared it to physical assault (shooting someone with a paintball gun), sexual assault (groping someone's boob), and even the frickin' Holocaust* (systematically shoving people into ovens). Don't you think these comparisons maybe go a little too far?
Not really, Willow. As you typed you were thinking "All these things are outside of what games are, while my game is obviously within the idea of what games are!". So I haven't prompted you at all to consider whether something presented as a game could be not a game at all - all I've given you, from your perspective, are things that aren't to do with games and therefore not to do with your text. The very thing I try to challenge in you deflects me effortlessly "Why is he talking about non game stuff (when I wrote a game)?". Perhaps if I could seperate the SLSK text from the notion of game for just an instant...
So I don't think I went far enough - but really I don't know how to go any further anyway.
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