Mechaton Rules Questions
Keith:
So the book says when calculating VPP, for ties, both people bump. So if we both have the most mechs, we both bump down one. Cool. What about in a two-player game: say we both have 6 mechs. Do we both bump up, for having the fewest mechs, or bump down, for having the most mechs? It equals out, I understand, but it does affect our VPP as far as what the attachments did to it.
And also: Let me know straight up if I'm just playing with bad strategy, but in the games where I was the attacker - and these are two player games, mind you - I've tended to trail considerably behind the defender. This game today, I started with 30 points to her 70-something, and the leap is just massive, it feels like there's no way to make a dent. For reference, I was at 3 VPP, unluckily having the most attachments and most mechs, and she was at 7, getting the upper hand by default. It's starting to look like "Defender Wins" no matter what. Any advice?
lumpley:
I love answering rule questions!
1. For 2-player games, I think neither bump. Try that and see how it seems.
2. Attack like crazy, and mean it. You can't afford to waste a single mech's single turn. Concentrate your fire, know when to seize a target of opportunity and when to ignore it, have a solid strategy and follow through without hesitating or flinching. It's the only way to win as the attacker. No hanging back, testing, probing, waiting for the right time. The defender can win just by settling in and waiting you out; you have to bring the fight.
The worst position to be in, at the start of the battle, is one mech ahead. Try bringing 6 mechs next time, see how she likes it.
The good news is that even so, her 70-something will drop precipitously as you blow up her mechs and take her stations, and your 30-something won't.
-Vincent
Keith:
Awesome. I have some more, just recently!
1) So I can name a mech outside of my direct fire range with a direct fire weapon if, after I move, I believe I'll be within direct fire, right? All that happens if I don't hit it is I just don't hit, not a problem. Okay, does spotting work the same way? You can only spot at direct fire range. What we've been doing, and I can't really say why, is that I can name someone in direct fire range if I might be within range to hit them after the move, but I can't do that with spotting. Is that totally wrong, can I do the same move trick with my spot attachments?
2) Can I spot without a spotting attachment, and just not get the benefit of the yellow dice?
3) Cover - is there some general measure for when a mech is behind real cover versus just some terrain? Like, we've been building our cover four bricks high, because it's just enough for the mech to peek over it and maybe stick some guns over the top, and that's cool, and it feels right that you might get popped still from stray shots, flavor-wise. But how much cover needs to be in front of the mech to still count? If I pop off two bricks, and it's just like this little fence now that only comes up to the mech's waist, is that still cover? Single bricks don't count, but where exactly do you draw the line? What's the consideration?
4) With each of us fielding, generally, 6-8 mechs each, keeping track can be confusing. Is there anything in specific you do to remember which mech lost one of its white dice?
5) "Draw a line the long way through the cover, extended out onto the field, to determine whether the cover’s between you and your attacker."
I think I get what you mean for determining cover, but I actually don't understand this line at all. Could you clarify that a bit?
6) Quick and dirty: what should I consider when deciding how many attachments to put on a single mech, as well as what attachments to put on them? What my strategy is, sure, but is there some synergy between: "Always have a guy with a move and at least two hand to hand, overloaded, and always make sure to have a guy that has this and that, or this many attachments" (just making stuff up here) - or is it all completely dependent on you and your opponent?
7) I actually have around a thousand questions about all those optional rules that popped up in your campaign development posts, about "no declared target = +1 move" and getting additional goes with extra initiative dice, and also questions about the campaign stuff in general, but I realize that goodness kind of sputtered off and if you're not fielding questions for it all, I won't ask. If you are though, I'd appreciate dropping some more your way!
lumpley:
1) Yes, you can. I don't recall what the rules say, precisely, but in play around here we've just gradually dropped all the restrictions on spotting range and target anyway, and not missed them. If you roll a yellow die, you can spot whoever you want.
2) You can spot only if you have a spotting attachment. In that way it's like a ranged weapon.
3) We draw the line at a single brick. Two bricks together is cover.
4) For mechs that have lost a white die, we love to bust off arms or legs or heads.
5) No! I had a picture in my head, but who knows now what it was. The general principle is: be generous to the attacker about whether he can attack, and be generous to the defender about whether it counts as cover.
6) Make your guys support each other, as flexibly as you can. My own preference is 6 identical mechs each with 1 move, 1 armor, 1 spot, and 1 direct fire weapon. But, like, I win only my share of games, and maybe not quite that, so maybe it's not a great choice. What doesn't seem to work is a single scout with move, armor and spotting, in support of a more weapon-heavy assault or artillery force. The poor scout too often goes too late in the turn to really pull his own weight.
7) I owe you (and others) an up to date set of rules, with a new edition to follow. One of these days I'll find the time to put it together. Meanwhile, sure, ask away.
Oh, and so you know: those campaign rules look good and start strong, but they're broken. Plain old straight up mechanically incompatible with the game's scoring rules, and the strong start just disguises it.
-Vincent
Keith:
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1) Yes, you can. I don't recall what the rules say, precisely, but in play around here we've just gradually dropped all the restrictions on spotting range and target anyway, and not missed them. If you roll a yellow die, you can spot whoever you want.
As in, I can just spot anyone, anywhere on the battlefield, at hand to hand or artillery range as well?
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For mechs that have lost a white die, we love to bust off arms or legs or heads.
I hit a mech in a game, and it lost its move attachment - the player decided it was all four of its legs, and now the thing is just scooting across the ground, grinding metal, sparks everywhere, still firing its weapon as it slides around cover. I think we've been to afraid to screw with the main frame of the models themselves, and kept it to just attachments, but that's awesome.
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Oh, and so you know: those campaign rules look good and start strong, but they're broken. Plain old straight up mechanically incompatible with the game's scoring rules, and the strong start just disguises it.
Really? That's unfortunate! We were looking forward to trying them out in a few weeks. The game is great, but I think we'd (me and my opponent, strictly) benefit from some kind of battle-to-battle cohesion. Right now it's just shootin' some mechs, battles in limbo, not much story or point. This isn't a complaint with the game, mind you - we're not looking at the game's rules to do that for us, it'd be like complaining that Uno isn't giving us any character development. Rather, it's just a personal itch I'm trying to find a way to scratch.
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I owe you (and others) an up to date set of rules, with a new edition to follow. One of these days I'll find the time to put it together.
There's an adorable bunny pet in it for you if it's done by this summer. He's fuzzy and floppy, and his name is Li'l V.
Well, I still have questions about optional rules and things:
1) I'd like to know more about the stuff you guys were trying out during campaign development, specifically;
- no declared target = +1 move
- an additional initiative die = an extra go with no move (very curious about this one)
- area-effect rules
So did these get tested, can you endorse any of them? I'm keen on asking, before each match, "Okay, do we want the green d8, or the +1 move thing this match?" But I'd really like to know the state of those rules, if at all possible. Are there any problems with them, or any new rulings?
2) Similarly: are the vector rules good for use, collisions and all?
3) What about the Not Lowering Your Defense and Spot By -1 you were mentioning? We've played using that, and we've been getting a surprising number of 6s on defense, but it's fizzled just about as many attacks as, say, a 5 defense, so I haven't seen a problem. It sucks facing down two 6-defense assault dudes, but great fun charging towards them with a 6-defense runner while they've got massive spots on their heads and I just happen to get lucky with my attack roll. Did that turn out okay?
4) Oh, hey, a basic thing: if I declare a mech as my target but never fire on him for whatever reason, does he still get to go next according to combat order, just by being the declared target?
This has all been you-don't-know-how-helpful, and tons of thanks!
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