[Lord of the Rings] Oh, CODA!?!
Gregor Hutton:
Thanks, Jay. I'll have a think about this and get back to you. And if anyone else has a view then I'm happy to read them too.
My initial feeling is that I feel I can revel in the world of Middle-earth while stepping on up (the LOTR board game and the War of the Ring game from the 70s do this for me, I think), or while addressing a premise (I'm working on a game of my own that I hope will do this) or while pursuing the right to dream. But the murk, or lack of an agenda, in the CODA game at all seriously messes with the ability to play it coherently as written. And I feel that does cause a disconnect in play and enjoyment of Middle-earth because the colour gets compromised by the rules.
I feel that Conor's and my goodwill allowed us to avoid bits of the rules as written as the table (which is at the social contract level) to enjoy the game.
Of the three approaches, I think this CODA rules-set is closest to a gamey approach. There are definitely levers and pulleys that favour one thing over another as they are "better" than others. But it cuts the feet out from under the challenge when some of the best choices run counter to the colour and it tries to dilute it with ideas of "story" for XP and so on. (And the "story" strongly seems to be, on reflection, the GM's pre-prepared one, and not events and decisions emerging from play.)
Steve is hopefully playing his Elf this Sunday and I'm willing to give it another shot with my Dunedain. I like my character and I love the setting, and we all do want to play a game in Middle Earth.
Gregor
contracycle:
Just as a note I guess, I'm somewhat unclear what it is that you are having difficulty with in terms of the LOTR source material. I would have thought, frex, that long healing times would be quite appropriate, and that it's converse, the very rapid healing times in most fantasy games, are very un-LOTR-like. As for character death... well, to me LOTR never had a feeling of plot-immunised characters or death at significant moments. I would say rather that the manner of Boromir's death was heroic, and this redeemed him from the stigma of his previous ambitions. In that sense it's only a significant moment after the event, when intepreted retrospectively. My overall impression runs the other way, in that the fellowship were essentially "normal" people on the run from the overwhelming power of the Nazgul. In this respect the way that D&D frex levels you to a point where orcs become cannon fodder was also something I found disenchanting.
Anyway, I don't really know what I would have made of this system becuase I know no more about it than what you have said here, but to me the trend of making characters "heroic" in the sense of being more powerful is contrary to LOTR-as-I-see-it, FWIW.
Caldis:
I've heard that arguement about Boromir before and I just cant buy it as a legitimate call on Lord of the Rings. Sure characters are not heroic but they certainly dont die randomly or even when logic would dictate they should.
Hobbits get trapped by Old Man Willow, fortuitously Tom Bombadil shows up to help them. Ringwraiths attack Frodo on Weathertop, Aragorn scares them off with a torch. Merry gets crushed under a Troll at the end but still lives. Pippin faces the Witch-King and lives. This isnt a world governed by mathematics but one ruled by story-logic.
contracycle:
Well, you could say much the same about nearly any work of fiction. It's very rare to have major characters killed off, and narrow escapes are the order of the day. Sure these narratives are deliberately structured, but what is significant about any moment except for the things that happen in it? Surely it is the fact that Boromir is a major character that makes his death important; there is no abstract importance attached to the moment which makes it legitimate. Could have happened in chapter 1 or 20 or 50.
Caldis:
I dont think so. He had a part to play in the bigger story and his death before that happened would have made him a minor character.
There are a lot of places where he could have died, like say the watcher at the gates of Moria could have grabbed him and pulled him under or a random Orc could have stabbed him in the mine. If I made a character with a big back story like Boromir's where I'm trying to save my country from impending doom and I get dropped by some random orc somewhere before the story has really begun I'd be underwhelmed with the game. He had a part to play in the bigger story and his trying to take the ring from Frodo was a huge galvinizing event that set the course for the rest of the books. He couldnt have died before that occurred.
I'll agree that charaters shouldnt feel superhuman and be fighting through hordes of monsters left and right but they were constantly getting in dangerous situations. I dont think the way that it sounds like Coda handles this matches well, nor does the idea of having the characters go "adventuring" without any purpose that the GM seemed to be assuming. It seems antithetical to the idea of characters being important people with important things to do. Granted this is intended as a prelude so it may just be a starting point, maybe the wounded traveller lead to a story point but I'd prefer the characters to be created with a purpose. The idea of fighting multiple enemies in a straight up fight doesnt seem quite right either and thats where the the "adventuring" idea might be conflicting with the themes from the books. Gaming is rife with the ideas that you get in a battle and fight to the end or until you defeat all your enemies but it doesnt really seem appropriate, running away or using lore to turn the battle to your advantage, or having a mysterious wander show up to turn the tide seems like a better solution.
As for healing being slow that's true to the book but what I dont think is true is wounds that hamper a character that arent a significant plot point. Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas fight all through the battle of Helms deep without a scratch being mentioned. Tracking hit points or penalties to actions based on wounds seems wrong, you're either fully functional or out of action.
I played a bunch of MERP/Rolemaster back in the mid to late 80's and it sounds like this implementation isnt a big jump forward. I dont think MERP talked much about story, just kind of assumed it was going on.
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