Non combat interactions
Alfryd:
Quote from: The Wolf on February 22, 2011, 03:46:21 AM
However, should Stu want to talk his way past a guard, He takes his charisma/fellowship/friendlyness adds it to any skill and ability that's relevant in a straight up resisted roll. Where combat is a swirling melee (sometimes literally) The cut and thrust of debate is reduced to two guys battering each other with shovels marked 'argument' until one wins. I feel this is a disservice to those builds who are built around fast talking, wheeling and dealing and generally conning folk.
Well, you can always take a gander at the duel of wits mechanics for burning wheel, and trim it down to taste.
One very simple rule that I think can really benefit debate-simulation is: Do Not Repeat Yourself (or applying cumulative penalties for doing so.) It obliges the players to come up with valid, original points.
At this point, though, unless the OP wants to weigh in on the subject again, I think this conversation is likely to just stall out.
The Wolf:
Apologies all, works been kicking the unmentionables for the past two weeks, good thing I'm leaving huh? The Names Wolf, Wolfie or Ross (my actual name). The poll was to simulate discussion which seems to be happily unnecessary on this particular forum. I have been reading your replies and they are all giving me some thought.
(Greg) The Idea of there being a contested roll to stop a paratrooper's entry and then consequences is the basic setup, This is probably the solution I have been using, along with judicious applying and subtracting of dice dependent on situation. However, I find that quite often this sells the whole thing short, that this conflict between two people which is as important as any military engagement is being decided over a single dice roll of two attributes vs another two attributes.
(Cliff) I get what your saying about the horrendous amounts of Maths involved. I don't want to spend the evening knee deep in some kind of quadratic equation and I like the idea of the universal resolution system, I'll need to give that a look. I think that's what I'm getting at, The speaking characters in my game spend five minutes running around trying to sort something out and then something kicks off and its down to a in depth combat sequence where the combat characters shine in greater detail and the 'speaking' characters are forced to chip in with the weapons they learned because they had to pick 'something'. I dunno if that says more about the game or my GMing to be honest though.
(Stefoid) I really like that, The idea of black and white argument interactions being 'combat based' with augment or soul damage etc. I can also get that it may not be too useful against less clear cut decisions.
(Alfryd) I will have a wee peek at the Duel of wits rules, they sound interesting and having a social rule as in "don't repeat yourself would be interesting."
On using less dice based resolutions, I often find that this simply leads to verbose, quick thinking players to end up being the negotiator, thereby leaving those who are unable to think so fast on their feet to take the combat characters. and that always struck me as something of a shame. One GM I played with barely used any dice at all which I can see what he was getting at and the session did flow beautifully but it led to me having to explain to him how I was going to break a security system in detail, something I know as much about as a nuclear reactor. I think that the amount of dice use to roleplay is a very delicate balance and I wouldn't want to tell someone they couldn't be a speaking character because they wern't that good at it. after all, if that were the case how many of the average gaming group know how an assault rifle works?
I suppose I've rambled somewhat. I do understand that there has to be a balance in all things. he he
Thanks for your replies.
Alfryd:
Quote from: The Wolf on March 03, 2011, 01:26:14 AM
Greg) The Idea of there being a contested roll to stop a paratrooper's entry and then consequences is the basic setup, This is probably the solution I have been using, along with judicious applying and subtracting of dice dependent on situation. However, I find that quite often this sells the whole thing short, that this conflict between two people which is as important as any military engagement is being decided over a single dice roll of two attributes vs another two attributes.
I concur this is the basic problem that a lot of folks have with persuasion conflicts- having important outcomes hinge on one or two rolls feels too arbitrary. Players generally prefer something more involved when a lot is at stake, so the Duel of Wits basically uses an instanced-hit-points system for the purpose, which is crude, but serviceable. (Also, you might not feel the need to use advance action-scripting- conversations are arguably one of the few forms of conflict resolution where the old-fashioned 'everybody roll initiative, now take turns' arguably makes more sense, from a simulation perspective.)
I also agree with your remarks on the problems/tradeoffs involved in diceless interactions- the other problem is that a sufficiently inventive/smart GM can almost always come up with some plausible rationalisation for NPCs refusing to budge on an issue- or, alternatively, caving instantly- which can become a form of non-obvious railroading.
Gregor Hutton:
Just to note that the resolution system for Hot War treats persuasion and arguments with the same granularity as combat (or any other type of conflict).
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