Making a game
Ron Edwards:
Hello,
You have no basis for worry if this is all you have in mind.
The case against Underworld actually good news for you and me, in that the relative underdog (White Wolf) was able to force a very big foe (Sony Pictures) to a settlement. The judge put some effort into deeming the suit not frivolous. This example does not in any way support your image of White Wolf as a abuser of small-press competitors. Collins and White Wolf vs. Sony Pictures (this link is to the White Wolf press release, but its contents are the same in various legal website records as well). It's a rare day when I defend White Wolf regarding anything, but in this case, which involves reality and legality, not game design, they were the injured party and apparently justice was served.
The interactions you describe with GW people are mere posturing. "I'd like to see you try," is the proper response.
Your account of the Masters of Magic situation demonstrates some confusion about the whole legal issue. There is no such thing as a "right to sue." People sue one another, period. The question is whether it gets thrown out of court at the outset, i.e., is deemed frivolous. And as it happens, I can find no evidence of any court case.
It's true that some game companies have issued cease & desist letters to others. I know of no case in which they have been successfully enforced.
The only really nasty example I know of concerning game shutdowns comes from TSR vs. Games Design Workshop, regarding the game Dangerous Journeys. Still, the details are instructive. The original game title was Dangerous Dimensions, which Gary Gygax changed to Dangerous Journeys upon threat of lawsuit from TSR, during the game's development. Then later, when Dangerous Journeys was published by GDW, TSR brought suit against them to bar initial release, which failed. Further threats, however, led GDW to drop the game. In other words, TSR never brought any successful lawsuit against Gygax or GDW. See The ultimate interview with Gary Gygax.
It's also true that Wizards of the Coast holds a patent on several different features of competitive/customizable card games, most notoriously the tapping rule. No company has ever suffered any consequences from using similar or even identical features. Note that to violate a patent requires hitting every, not any of the listed features. So you'd have to imitate so many specific features, it'd be Magic anyway. The tactic was clearly a "chilling" move by WotC to scare people, but has demonstrated absolutely no legal substance in all the years since the patent was granted. See TCG and the WotC patent (notice that this linked discussion is full of fear-filled bullshit despite several weary, repeated explanations for why there's no need for any).
Bluntly, you are scaring yourself over nothing.
Best, Ron
ssem:
thank you Ron and Nathan :)
your posts have helped greatly. all that remains for me is to wait for the info to calm me down and take effect. as you said my post was completely due to my fears.
recently when I placed an advert in the shop stating that Bunnies & Beasties was a D&D 2nd Ed game and that the pictures I used were taken from google images. lots of people said I can't do that and that I was asking for trouble and would get done if I continued these adverts. even though others laughed and said nothing will ever happen it did bring to light that there were companies who 'seemed' to be watching out to stop anyone doing anything they didn't like.
Ofcourse it doesn't help that I openly tell every gamer that AD&D 4th Ed is a purely WotC product and a complete failure where TSR is concerned and that the game has absolutely nothing to do with the original D&D. I tell them that AD&D 3rd Ed is the best and last AD&D game and it's greatness partly stems from the fact it uses more D&D rules than AD&D rules, this i proudly tell everyone. All the GMs at the shop, including the store owner, frequently ask me not to call 4th Ed AD&D as WotC has insisted it is the original D&D. So in the public world I openly contest that my system is more D&D than WotCs 4th Ed and I boldly and stupidly and yes stubbornly dare WotC to shut me up.
So each day I look behind me to see if the WotC police are onto me but now you have given me strength and hope that I can do whatever I want with my game so long as the final product does not claim to be D&D.
thanks and much appreciated
Jan the professional antagonist
Ron Edwards:
Oh dude, you must spend time clicking away at the links summarized at Old School Renaissance Sites. Never mind pontificating at the game store!
I think you'll be wonderfully surprised at both the games which have been published via this extremely productive community and the success of the publication push itself.
Best, Ron
Airafice:
Ofcourse it doesn't help that I openly tell every gamer that AD&D 4th Ed is a purely WotC product and a complete failure where TSR is concerned and that the game has absolutely nothing to do with the original D&D.
SSEM I hear you man. I started with D&D went to AD&D. Took a while to worm up to 3rd "Then loved it". And when I saw 4th me and my cohorts wept. Were did all the love go?
You got to check out Ron's links from above its a bit of the past that gives hope to my RPG hart.
I know this is an older conversation but I just had to give you props for the statements you made.
Arauka_Gurtha:
Quote from: Ron Edwards on March 02, 2011, 06:37:50 PM
It's true that some game companies have issued cease & desist letters to others. I know of no case in which they have been successfully enforced.
Ron I believe this is one of the cases where it was enforced http://www.emass-web.com/. Please correct me if I am mistaken.
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