[D&D 4e] Balance Issues
Alfryd:
Quote from: Natespank on February 27, 2011, 09:21:55 PM
I don't know what to do. With that regen and that kiting strategy, on an overland map the party could defeat an almost infinite number of similar-level enemies. I'm tired and cranky, but I could really use some advice on how to save my game.
It might be helpful to see the specific builds being used. Also, what kind of environments were the PCs fighting in? Were there some kind of unusual choke points between them and the targets? Just throwing out ideas, but this does sound quite odd for 4E.
Callan S.:
Hi Nate,
I think it's at the point where you decide whether you concede victory to them (not only over the game world, but over the system itself) or realise all this modification and trying to find ways around what they've done is finding ways around conceding victory. Keep doing that and it's just a path down to either simulationism or narrativism, as it shoots gamism in the foot to not pay that victory. As I measure it.
I know, it feels utterly lame to put in that much effort and then on a sort of technicality of system, they just win? Further it wasn't even in in game show of ability - it was all pre game character build skill applied. I know. And your still stuck with either shooting gamism in the foot, or acknowleding the technicality win as still a win. I think alot of people go and shoot gamism in the foot and go sim.
Chris_Chinn:
Hi Nate,
I'm not sure what you're looking for in terms of help. It sounds a lot like you're just completely unhappy with either a) 4E overall, b) the person you're playing with, or possibly both.
I mean, there's a lot of simple houserule fixes you can go with, like capping Temp HP Battleragers get. Or just banning that build out right (a lot of people on the WOTC/D&D boards have simply gone with that option).
But if you're not happy with D&D4E and just venting, the only thing people can really tell you is, "Hey, try another game." Or, if the player in question "always" finds ways to do things outside the intent of your games, the problem isn't going to be the rules, and again, the end result will probably be to not play with him.
So what are you looking for and how can we help?
Chris
Natespank:
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I think it's at the point where you decide whether you concede victory to them
I do concede. He did win- he looted the island and has an awesome haul now. Still banned the class though. Gotta acknowledge that he sort of "beat the game" in a way.
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I'm not sure what you're looking for in terms of help. It sounds a lot like you're just completely unhappy with either a) 4E overall, b) the person you're playing with, or possibly both.
The player's fine, I'm upset with 4e. However, the player group loves it and I've failed over the years to switch systems.
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So what are you looking for and how can we help?
I need to save my campaign, partially for my own sake. A few more episodes like this and I'll just stop DMing. It's not quite the player's fault- they're supposed to make strong characters and kick ass. It's more the system's problem. Technically, it's my problem with the system.
Is the best solution to triple the size of each encounter while banning/houseruling as I go?
Speaking of other game systems, what are some comparable ones that I might be able to introduce if I get lucky? I REALLY like 4e in essence, but it has so many little things... hah.
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It might be helpful to see the specific builds being used. Also, what kind of environments were the PCs fighting in? Were there some kind of unusual choke points between them and the targets? Just throwing out ideas, but this does sound quite odd for 4E.
The ranger just excels in large open areas. Ship to ship is good for him, as are plains. Just a good build for that.
The dwarf bloodrager thing... level 2 or 3, regen 6, 23 AC (partially due to items), 4-8 temp hit points per attack. Like I said, at higher levels I think it'll be far less effective, but for low levels he's a god.
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I think alot of people go and shoot gamism in the foot and go sim.
I don't want sim, I want primarily gamism. I just need a structure that doesn't get ridiculously unbalanced.
Sorry if this sounds like a rant, I really want to save my game before it's too late.
Callan S.:
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I just need a structure that doesn't get ridiculously unbalanced.
I think in chess when the king is surrounded, can't move in any direction and is threatened as well, it's ridiculously unbalanced. I'd actually say winning is about one player taking balance and breaking it over his or her knee.
Well, I've talked about the whole 0-1000 winning track thing. I know it's a pain because you expect to be able to just deligate that responsiblity to the written rules, instead of having bought a product and then write your own game anyway. But I think you don't want things to be balanced forever and ever - you have to determine how they can finally unbalance things and take the king, so to speak.
Anyway, speaking in those terms I'd consider instead of trying to faff about with banning classes, just put a cap on damage output. Also a cap on the number of rounds you can kite, before the enemy automatically closes with you. It's just too hard to try to find and fill in all the little holes, so just put a bigger bag around the whole thing. But still at some point there needs to be a king taker move.
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