head games
David Berg:
Pretty much everything Gareth just said resonates with my own experience. I just wanted to highlight this:
Quote from: contracycle on March 06, 2011, 06:46:48 PM
players too can flag up to [the GM] which bits they would like to see detailed for future play
as a particularly effective technique to combat the failed promise Ben spoke of. I've seen it work perfectly with this:
Quote from: Paul Czege on March 06, 2011, 05:08:16 PM
The promise to the players isn't that they can go anywhere and do anything, but that they can have an impact on situations created by the GM, and that they can switch into different situations fairly readily if they want.
David Berg:
Hi Paul,
It sounds to me like you and Matt have an important disconnect about roles. He thinks he's supposed to look to you for where the plot's at, you think he's supposed to make decisions that dictate the plot for his character, and neither option is fully supported by what you guys are doing at the table. I don't know whether the lack of support is causing the disconnect or the disconnect is causing the lack of support.
My own solution to this tends to revolve around signalling to the players "here's what you can get out of my various situations" so that they can make an informed choice between them. I can trace pretty much every between-missions lag or weak mission buy-in in a Delve session to a failure on my part to do that. (Of course, it's also necessary to signal opportunities the players actually want, but I've found that part far easier.)
I'm saying all this based on my reading that you like this:
Quote from: Paul Czege on March 06, 2011, 05:08:16 PM
Matt's character in particular has been across the landscape of the game and back, across numerous situations.
less than this: Quote from: Paul Czege on March 06, 2011, 05:08:16 PM
The point at which he chooses to create some expectations, that's when he'll be a protagonist.
If I'm wrong, then never mind.
Paul Czege:
David,
Quote from: David Berg on March 06, 2011, 08:03:59 PM
I'm saying all this based on my reading that you like this:
Quote from: Paul Czege on March 06, 2011, 05:08:16 PM
Matt's character in particular has been across the landscape of the game and back, across numerous situations.
less than this: Quote from: Paul Czege on March 06, 2011, 05:08:16 PM
The point at which he chooses to create some expectations, that's when he'll be a protagonist.
Absolutely. All those numerous situations is just me throwing more pasta hoping something will stick, because to me it seemed obvious that Matt had back-burnered the situation with Khaia.
I do think that once a character's protagonism is established by everyone knowing about an inevitable event--in Matt's case his reunion with Khaia--then the management and release of tension about when and how that inevitable event will occur is a joint effort by all. But Matt and I haven't been playing that...it hasn't felt like anything but a back-burnered thing.
Paul
Paul Czege:
Hey Judd,
Quote from: Judd on March 06, 2011, 07:55:38 PM
It is, in my experience, playing to the GM as another player, rather than staying in character and playing to the situation and fiction at hand.
Can you play to the GM as another player in character?
Paul
Matt Gwinn:
I think part of the disconnect is that is that my character has "back-burnered" the Khaia situation while he tries to get his head together about how he's going to deal with it, but I as a player never intended to back-burner the story at all. I always intended it to maintain it's place in the spotlight while my character kind of stalked his way around the situation. Their ultimate reunion is going to be awkward as she doesn't feel the same way he does and that is something he's concerned about. He's been stalling in a sense.
I think part of my problem with the whole spaghetti launcher concept is that the pasta isn't flavored right. I think your story arcs are interesting and pretty entertaining, but ultimately they rarely tie in with my character. They consistently focus on NPCs and quite consistently with NPCs that have no ties to the Khaia storyline. That leaves me in the situation that Ben mentioned where I either go with the story arcs placed before me or don't play.
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