[D&D 4e] Combat and Reward Systems
Callan S.:
In the warhammer quest board game, for example, the wizard rolls 1 on his power roll the author's given a written a rule saying you draw a card from the random monster deck.
Kevin Vito:
In oldschool D&D, some of the classes have an incentive to seek out and destroy enemies of a certain type through features that make them well suited to the task. Clerics and Paladins are highly effective against undead enemies such as vampires thanks to their Turn Undead feature.Rangers are highly effective against goblins, orcs, and giants as they have a feature that gives them bonuses when attacking enemies of the giant type. Elves and dwarves get a similar bonus against that type.
4E doesn't really have that so much...
Is that what you are talking about Callan?
Callan S.:
Hi Kevin,
Well, no - what your describing still doesn't include where the games author tells you to bring in a monster. In terms of combat/conflict, that's a pretty pivotal absence. I mentioned this to nate on his blog, and he said (quoting myself first)
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"It never, ever draws that line from build character to kill stuff. It never, anywhere in the rules says when to bring in a monster."
That's kind of weird come to think of it. It's not in the rules, though it is suggested in the encounters part of the DMG. Not a rule though.
stefoid:
Yeah, I think the authors thought it was so obvious that they didnt need to say it though, like - you might feel more comfortable if you play at a table using chairs.
No as to whether they should have thought that -- whole other debate.
Natespank:
Sorry for so long with no reply. School's crazy!
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Well, I can speak for myself. I've been DMing a D&D game for, oh, six months now or so, roughly once every two weeks (down at the Sentry Box -- woo!); the PCs just hit level 4.
Yay Sentry Box! Another Calgarian ;D
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[4e] Is definately about tactical combat.
In 4e a particular point that bothers me is the importance of stat blocks. Most fights are contests between stat blocks more than anything else, even more than tactical combat (assuming basic proficiency with tactical combat).
For example, when goblins attack the party... the PCs slaughter them! As long as the PCs aren't level 1 or maybe 2, it doesn't even matter how many goblins there are- I've extensively tested this :D The reasons the PCs are "destined to win" is because their stat blocks are just so much stronger. It's foremost a game of contesting stat blocks- that's why character creation matters so much, and many of the most important player decisions are made when building the character.
As a house rule I'm considering doubling all the situational modifiers- for example, +4 with combat advantage instead of +2, -8 for heavy cover instead of -4. That way tactics matter more. In-game player decisions would carry more weight!
To relate this to my other thread, the relative importance of stat blocks over tactics is another factor prejudicing the game towards DM passivity- the DM can't really challenge the PCs with tactics, he has to challenge them with encounter building ahead of time :p
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In oldschool D&D, some of the classes have an incentive to seek out and destroy enemies of a certain type through features that make them well suited to the task.
That would be a neat mechanic if it was woven deeper into the game design :D Especially for sandbox play.
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And there is nothing wrong with min-maxing, its a perfectly valid design choice!
Agreed. It makes sense for 4e. There's an advantage of premade modules over self-made modules because of how the module doesn't take the particular characters into account- they're pretty objectively neutral! (if easy).
Now if only the modules were any good... :)
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your idea of taking XP away from fighting and putting it somewhere else is just breaking the game with a massive sledgehammer.
...sort of agreed. The major problem, to me, is the lack of supporting mechanics for non-combat activities. There's very very few rules for travel, sneaking and exploring except for skill challenges, which I sort of dislike.
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