[A Game Called School...] Using Game Design Outside of Gaming
Roger:
This game... it's a little strange. I'm not sure I understand the system as written. I'll start with the diagram ( http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xGAXGUTfggI/TX8ydQMLtvI/AAAAAAAAANQ/UPuM4xSynPU/s1600/Nate%2527s%2Bschool%2BSystem%2BDiagram.png ) though as that seems fairly straightforward.
1. There's no endgame. As far as I can tell, you just go round and round the arrows until you die.
2. There's no differentiation between internal scoring (that is, testing yourself) and external scoring (writing a final exam) but I'm not sure yet if that's a bug or a feature. Let's just say it seems worth a closer look.
3. I'm not sure if I see how Score and Feedback are distinct steps; hopefully you can shed some light on what you see as distinguishing them.
4. There seems to be two distinct paths to Kicking Ass -- Studying, and (eventually) via Testing-Scoring-Feedback. This is a little weird; I might be tempted to just grind Studying and never bother with the other route.
5. On the other hand, you can also go from Studying straight to I Suck, which I don't think I understand at all.
Cheers,
Roger
Natespank:
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Well there is soimne research indicating that rewards don't really work. An experiment in the UK giving students money or what amounts to toys to study was abandoned after it nhad no discernable effect. I think that the "reward" structure that applies in most games is the ability to exert control over your own actions and to make your own decisions - precisely the experience we don't get in school or in work.
Sort of a Nietzsche Will to Power thing- we love exerting power, we hate being powerless.
What rewards are you talking about though? Cash? How much? How good were the toys? If I got $100 for every 1% I got on a test, I'd study my ass off and skip work to do it. I'd blow off my friends for that kind of money (short term). Could you elaborate? That seems like an interesting test.
As for power-over-life/surroundings being a reward, remember old school D&D? as you level up you can reform landmasses, teleport, geas... you get massive power over your environment! power is a great reward! Any ways you can think of to integrate this more into a system?
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1. There's no endgame. As far as I can tell, you just go round and round the arrows until you die.
I sort of agree.
There's no endgame in competitive RTS or FPS games either- unless you consider world championships an endgame, which seems legit. You do loop round and round the arrows- until you get to your arbitrarily determined goal-skill-level, or get bored.
In my case, I'd like to pursue my abilities in my study field (science/engineering) as far as I can, so a lack of an endgame doesn't bother me.
Would you recommend adding one?
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2. There's no differentiation between internal scoring (that is, testing yourself) and external scoring (writing a final exam) but I'm not sure yet if that's a bug or a feature. Let's just say it seems worth a closer look.
I don't differentiate in the system. I think both are reward opportunities, both are worth grinding for, and both are motivationally significant. One just punishes you for failure- maybe in that case I should differentiate... there is an extra reinforcer to work hard on those tests.
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3. I'm not sure if I see how Score and Feedback are distinct steps; hopefully you can shed some light on what you see as distinguishing them.
Arguable. When I score myself in games I almost never get perfect. The reason I separate score and feedback is because I think of them as separate activities- scoring is mechanical and objective, feedback is a comparison about how I did versus how tough the work was, and a comparison to how I did last time. The result of that subjective analysis is what I call "feedback."
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4. There seems to be two distinct paths to Kicking Ass -- Studying, and (eventually) via Testing-Scoring-Feedback. This is a little weird; I might be tempted to just grind Studying and never bother with the other route.
Go for it. Until this year I skipped practice problems and self-tests, only grinding studying. I usually get 95% + on math tests. It's fine!
It's just that to get a feeling of "Kicking Ass" from studying is tricky, so it's really hard to motivate myself to do it on it's own... :( Great when it does work.
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5. On the other hand, you can also go from Studying straight to I Suck, which I don't think I understand at all.
For example, yesterday in Physics I got completely lost in what the teacher was saying. I have only the vaguest idea what I was supposed to have learned yesterday. I consider that a "straight to I suck" moment. Rather than jumping into test problems, I think it's time to assess what went wrong and strategize about how to get unstuck and how to avoid getting stuck in the future.
Great comments so far guys!
Natespank:
Actually, your mentioning the endgame reminded me of something.
I think there needs a more explicit goal system throughout. Otherwise it's easy to get bogged down in a particular and not progress through a unit/subject.
Paul Czege:
Quote from: Natespank on March 17, 2011, 10:15:50 AM
What rewards are you talking about though? Cash? How much? How good were the toys? If I got $100 for every 1% I got on a test, I'd study my ass off and skip work to do it. I'd blow off my friends for that kind of money (short term). Could you elaborate? That seems like an interesting test.
Really, read the Alfie Kohn.
Paul
Natespank:
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Really, read the Alfie Kohn
In Calgary bookstores that title is unavailable, though I can get the other.
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