Why do I hate this resolution? Is this some Sim technique?
Chris_Chinn:
Hi Peter,
Quote
I was the only one that wanted to find the place for the mechanics (the so-called rule from the book) (what are they prescribing) in the equation or rather understand the meaning of them (what are they describing in the imaginary world), other people seemed to wanting to have a more plausible result and told, what was plausible for them. Or probably they wanted to win with their characters remaining the kings of cool. I don't think this is important. Is this?
This sounds like the issue in whole. "How do we play the game?" is a core issue for any game, though roleplaying games, as a culture, often fall into the pitfall of treating it as a minor issue when it's an absolute requirement for functional play.
Maybe some of the players were arguing for plausibility (what kind? "realism"? "genre appropriate"? See, there's room for divide within even that...), maybe some were arguing in the goal of advantage ("Calvinballing", named after the game in Calvin & Hobbes comic), etc. Since the group doesn't have a clear guide as to what directs play, it becomes a battle of "what game are we playing?" rather than a minor bit of details.
Without a clear game (procedures, point of play to guide things) as a starting point, there's no reason to even talk about Creative Agenda, since no clear CA exists amongst the group or procedures of play as being played.
I wrote a little tool to nail down clarity on games: http://bankuei.wordpress.com/2010/03/27/the-same-page-tool/ - I've got a feeling if you gave this to the different players, they'd probably be all over the map on how they think -this- game should be played. (mind you, you shouldn't actually do that. It won't help the game and will only spark more arguments.)
I mean, it sounds like you've already got a good bead on the situation- they way in which they are playing is not to your taste. You don't have a clear idea on how the game -should- be played, and there's arguments erupting.
Chris
David Berg:
Hi Peter, I'd have to be pretty creative to show ways in which this type of play could be functional. But I can do it if you want; just let me know.
czipeter:
Quote from: David Berg on March 14, 2011, 10:51:24 AM
Hi Peter, I'd have to be pretty creative to show ways in which this type of play could be functional. But I can do it if you want; just let me know.
Please, David! I'm curious.
Everybody else:
Thank you for your answers, they definitely helped me and tomorrow, I'll probably see if they help the group as a whole. I'll report.
David Berg:
Okay, best case scenario: the GM makes his determinations not out of an arbitrary "what I like", but rather with reference to principles that the whole group values. "We value realism!" can never be the whole story, but it can be a big part of it, and if this group's play history has shown that everyone (especially the GM) is in fact engaging in these arguments toward the end of a more vivid and mutually satisfying fiction, then the arguments are functional. In a pre-resolution discussion, everyone gets to communicate their vision of the imagined place, characters and events, creating a richer whole than 4-5 separate (i.e., uncommunicated) imaginings.
This requires listening and genuine enthusiasm for other people's contributions; a simple desire to be heard (or, worse, "prove" that you are "right") is insufficient. Based on the group's failure to enlist you in this, my guess is that they aren't actually listening enthusiastically, and the arguments aren't actually fun in the way I described. But, it's always possible that they're just not good at communicating why and how to enjoy their style of play to others, and so you didn't get it.
You might be able to figure this out if you can remember when they seemed to be enjoying and not enjoying the arguments. If they're not enjoying them, it's still possible that they're all working to uphold shared group principles, but they need a better way to do that. So, y'know, playing in good faith, but with bad tools.
Or their play could just be dysfunctional. I don't have enough info to know which option is most likely.
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