[Sorcerer] Miyazaki + Wuxia + Westmark = Druids! (one-sheet help)
Chris_Chinn:
Hi James,
Quote
Within Miyazaki's fairy-tale, that seems like a category error: the kids aren't meant to be real people who will age, have regrets, and die
This is generally true of all happy-stories that tend to get aimed at kids. The question, though, is what is the the story implying as possibilities within it's own fiction? Rewatch the scene when Mei goes missing- Satsuki is completely full of regret and flipping out.
Notice that she goes to the Totoros for help, last, after she already tried to do things the mundane way, and with her community. This would be the Humanity boost that helps shield her for dealing with the spirit world.
While it's true Miyazaki is almost always on the side of industry-bad, spirits good, I think Princess Mononoke was his rawest and most nuanced look at it, which dovetails perfectly with your Humanity definition. (Spirited Away also tied into that as well. Name-taking as Taint seems to be an appropriate tie-in).
Chris
Marshall Burns:
Quote from: James_Nostack on March 29, 2011, 05:47:57 PM
Moving back to the nature stuff - there's this strain of . . . I don't know the right word, like, pastoral utopianism in Miyazaki's work. Chris wrote, "For example, if only kids can see Totoro, what happens when they grow up? Is it simply age, or is there a choice to be made?" Within Miyazaki's fairy-tale, that seems like a category error: the kids aren't meant to be real people who will age, have regrets, and die.
Huh? The older sister in Totoro has regrets before the movie even ends. Chihiro's adventure in Spirited Away is a trial to teach her manners, resilience, resourcefulness, and courage so that she can be a good adult some day. We see the boy's parents fighting plainly on-screen and in full view of the kid in Ponyo (the mother even chugs a beer to try to calm down).
I like Miyazaki because he knows that kids are smarter and tougher than we give them credit for. His stuff ain't your usual fairy-tale fluff; it's real fairy tales.
James_Nostack:
Marshall, it's been maybe 4 years since I've seen most of those films. But would you agree that Miyazaki's films don't present Reality vs. Fantasy as a psychodramatic battle the way, say, A Streetcar Named Desire does? (Confession: instead of Streetcar I'm actually thinking about the opening to the horrible 1980's Return to Oz, which begins with Dorothy being locked away in an asylum because she won't disavow Oz's reality. That type of conflict, whether with Dorothy Gale or Blanche DuBois, doesn't seem to be a major issue in Miyazaki's work, but maybe I'm not remembering.)
But I do agree with you that Totoro, the Ohmu, and several of the critters in Spirited Away are more like teachers or psychopomps, giving the protagonists moral support when confronted with discouragement in the "real" world.
James_Nostack:
I watched Princess Mononoke last night. I agree with Chris: it's hitting on all of these issues.
Some stuff that seemed relevant to figuring out Humanity considerations in the film:
* Ashitaka gets cursed when he shoots the Demon-Boar, even though it's to save his little sister
* Ashitaka tries to help the villagers against the samurai raiders but his curse turns him into a monster (for a moment or two)
* Ashitaka earns admiration for rescuing the wounded ox-drivers that Lady Eboshi had abandoned for dead
* Lady Eboshi is eager to destroy the forest and the spirits within it if it will strengthen her position
* Lady Eboshi flummoxes Ashitaka's expectations by not just protecting, but esteeming and respecting pariahs kicked out by society (prostitutes, lepers)
* Ashitaka astounds everyone by breaking up the fight between San and Lady Eboshi, getting mortally wounded in the process
* San fends off the Ape-Tribe, calms down her Wolf-Tribe siblings, and takes Ashitaka to the forbidden island of the Great Forest Spirit
* San ultimately takes up arms against the Humans when the Boar-Tribe makes their last stand
* Ashitaka engaging in massive Humanity-boosting behavior, rescuing San, saving the town, and healing the Great Forest Spirit
* San rejects returning to the human world, and Ashitaka remaining in Iron Town.
Lady Eboshi is the kick-ass classic Sorcerer protagonist in this bunch. Reconiing that te existing regime is corrupt and brutal, she decides to create an alternative, Iron Town, a refuge for outcasts. If the survival of Iron Town and what it represents requires her to be absolutely ruthless in cutting down the forest for more resources, well then so be it: it's not like the Forest Spirit was doing a whole lot of good. (She reminds me a lot of the Kushana character from Nausicaa, just with some clearer motivation.)
Chris_Chinn:
Hi James,
A fun thing to consider is whether the animal gods are demons in the Sorcerer sense, or sentient big fucking animals who are ALSO sorcerers in their own right.
For example, Ashitaka's curse is pretty much a Parasite demon and it's need is probably to destroy Humanity: Boar God has hit humanity 0, now it's time to find a new host - which is when it "curses" Ashitaka and gives him the awesome power to take out the Boar God.
The other thing, is then it means San's protecting of the Wolf pack and the Forest are potentially Humanity gaining actions- which are being balanced by her non-stop vengeance quest... So she keeps riding the edge.
Jigo, on the other hand, has a few moments, but basically is quick on a downward spiral- who cares if the whole valley gets killed as long as he gets what he wants, right? His choice to give up at the end might have been the only thing keeping him from hitting Humanity 0.
Chris
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