No investigations? II (split)
stefoid:
Hi, Im right into that in my game, you can check out the second draft here, with the more complete first draft in my sig. Let me know what you think.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B5W32IfgIIkrOWYxNjg2MDEtZWQ0OS00YmIxLTk5ZTYtNDVmZjY0NWMyYjY3&hl=en&authkey=CLaJ4P4J
Warrior Monk:
I was remembering the Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis video game. On the first part of the game there was a clear goal: to get inside a local and speak with an npc. Yet there were more than one way to accomplish the goal: you could either solve a puzzle of boxes and objects to climb to the roof, talk your way inside or defeat the guard with your bare fists. Each way had the same level of complexity in its own way.
I've used that system to create campaigns before: providing players with a goal, leave to them the way to get there, but then adding key elements that let them get to the goal faster, better prepared or both, and reflecting that on the status of the final conflict: If players got lucky rolls on a "preliminary investigations" stage, PCs could arrive in time and surprise the enemy. If they got the info later, they could find the enemy prepared but there anyway. They could also fail all the rolls and find themselves facing the enemy in the worst situation possible.
The "guess what number I'm thinking" mechanic is actually the only way to keep the players with the feeling that there's a mystery to unveil. All I can add is that if you make more mechanics available for the players to beat the game, then players themselves will keep the story from stalling. Yet be sure to show them the investigation option first and reward them if they beat the game that way, or they'll keep kicking the doors, shooting first and asking questions later.
Callan S.:
Quote from: stefoid on April 03, 2011, 06:34:34 PM
Ultimately Id like this to lead to some realisation that the nazis are using supernatural forces to aid their war effort, such as using reanimated soldiers or something, and who is behind it.
Does 'who is behind it' matter the most (for your design)? Or is it
Quote
What I want the conflicts to be about are 'what is the cost of finding the clue and its meaning?'
I mean, suppose the character never get to the nazi's, but in the process of not getting there we find they will sacrifice something dear to them for information, or at other times when we thought they might sacrifice, they say 'I'll do anything for love but I wont do that' (heh).
Would that be sufficiently engaging as a session and the zombie nazis, despite how gamers often seek high concept mash ups, not actually all that important to the play group?
stefoid:
Quote from: Callan S. on May 19, 2011, 04:46:31 PM
Quote from: stefoid on April 03, 2011, 06:34:34 PM
Ultimately Id like this to lead to some realisation that the nazis are using supernatural forces to aid their war effort, such as using reanimated soldiers or something, and who is behind it.
Does 'who is behind it' matter the most (for your design)? Or is it
Quote
What I want the conflicts to be about are 'what is the cost of finding the clue and its meaning?'
I mean, suppose the character never get to the nazi's, but in the process of not getting there we find they will sacrifice something dear to them for information, or at other times when we thought they might sacrifice, they say 'I'll do anything for love but I wont do that' (heh).
Would that be sufficiently engaging as a session and the zombie nazis, despite how gamers often seek high concept mash ups, not actually all that important to the play group?
After some thought and playtesting, personally Ive come to a conclusion that works for me (and my design). Investigation is no different from any other mundane (non exciting) activity:
At first I was like "some forms of activity are intrinsically suited to dramatic challenges and some aren't"
But now I'm all "any activity, no matter how mundane, is a fine subject for a dramatic challenge, if whats at stake is dramatic and its framed the right way"
poor dramatic challenge:
activity: investigating a room for clues (mundane activity, but so far so good)
whats at stake: whether the PCs can find clues as to who is behind the plot (non dramatic stakes - not so good)
framed: if they find the clue they can pursue the baddie. If they dont, they have to wait for another clue to drop. (If they fail, the story doesn't advance, the PCs are in the same position they were in before the challenge. Nothing has changed)
good dramatic challenge:
activity: investigating a room for clues (mundane activity, but so far so good)
whats at stake: preventing the baddies plan from being executed. (dramatic stakes! good)
framed: if they find the clue they can interfere with the plan. If they don't, the plan will will go ahead. (either way, something happens. The story moves forward)
With reference to my game, which involves players explicitly setting goals,the conclusion is to base the goals on the stakes rather than the activity, which makes it easy to determine if a proposed goal is actually goal-worthy? Are the stakes dramatic?
Find out who the baddie is: not really dramatic.
Stop the plan from being executed: dramatic!
Callan S.:
I think what is dramatic (an ambiguous word) involves event depictions in the game linking back to some real life issues we have in real life. And basically in a way that could, depending on how play goes, have game events which do not match the mainstream media conclusions or zeitgeists inertia.
It's hard to give an example because what might be a RL issue to me might not be to you (and vise versa). For example, a real life issue to me is how the jobs system simply discards you to starve should it care to, there's also the heavily pushed idea of 'you can get a job' when you don't have control over that (barring hypnosis or mind control abilities I'm not aware of) and yet although it'll discard you, it's declared all the lands its own and will use martial force if you were to try and sustain yourself (via growing food) without it. Tack on the just world fallacy for good measure.
Okay, long example, but issues don't always fit in a neat slogan. What is dramatic is what links in to our own real life immediate fears (no, that you would be afraid of being eaten by a tiger if confronted by one doesn't mean it's a fear you carry from day to day (assuming your in a country without tigers, that is)).
That's what I think is dramatic - or atleast how I use the word 'dramatic'. I'm not insisting anyone else does, just describing it in case you think 'Oh yeah, that seems a good description of what I'm aiming for'.
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