Psychological randomness
szp:
Sorry about the confusion! I'm still naive to the terminology regarding game design... The fact that everyone has their own definition, as was stated in the rules thread, doesn't help either, I guess.
What you have is about right -- with the critical point being that Rorschach blotches are too open to interpretation. Originally, I was hoping for something like Jenga in Dread, though with something to do with how mutable dreams are like...
About the mechanics: It's something I'm still not too clear about! :D What I have in mind right now is that Ego is expressed by the nature of a character's being -- Marty Dreamcakes can punch the moon out of the night sky because he is that strong. With Drive, something similar could be done, of course. He could bat the sun out of the midday sky with a baseball bat, but this time because he can swing that well. With how I see it, there would be a lot of overlap -- but that's somewhat intentional. The stats should fordef be fine-tuned, but I'm wanting to give the player's creativity the upper hand in what their character can do, as opposed to the statistic scope and range of their abilities. (if that makes any sense... I myself haven't slept for longer than an hour at once since the week began, thanks to school. <_<)
Hmm. Another way to put it would be that Ego is self-concept and Drive is power-concept -- literally. Actions driven by Ego is powered by the character's confidence in their nature, while those by Drive is powered by the character's confidence in their abilities. Counteracting Ego would require somehow proving they are not what they think they are, which would usually be more difficult than proving that they can't do what they think they think they can.
...I'm not sure if either of these explanations make any sense. But this so far is how I understand the difference myself.
Baxil:
Re ego vs. drive: I personally still think the distinction is hair-splitting, but you've explained your position better and I can see where you're coming from. Thanks! I think you'll be well served to draw a clear mechanical distinction between them, if you keep them apart.
Re the resolution mechanic I hinted at: have you considered Tarot cards? Each draw gives you not only a number, but also imagery/symbolism/interpretation, and a way to swing the results dramatically. As a simple starter suggestion, maybe you have to narrate in a theme from the card to alter the base success/failure the numbers determine? (If you draw a 10 of Swords, that 10 is numerically going to kick ass, but clearly the card itself implies a huge sacrifice or reversal ...)
K.Hoffren:
I also think a card-based resolution mechanic might be best for a system like this. If you are not afraid of putting in a some effort to the actual system of randomization, I wouldn't recommend using the Tarot Cards. Instead, you could come up with a deck of cards yourself. Despite the fact that Tarot Cards have an inherent aura of coolness, they are actually somewhat disappointing (in my opinion) when compared to the mystical image that is attached to them. They is also a little difficult to use as an effective randomizer since there are only 22 Major Arcana cards (the cards most people think about when they talk about Tarots) and the symbolism behind some of the cards is quite unintuitive or otherwise difficult to implement into a game like this. If you create the cards yourself, you could actually make the system fit your needs instead of forcing the system fit the Tarot Cards. Here's an example:
The "suit" of the card could determine an abstract theme of the card, for example dividing the cards to seasons (Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter) or moods of the dream (Fear, Anger, Desire, Sorrow) or Elements (Earth, Wind, Fire, Water) or whatever.
The "face value" of the card could determine a more concrete theme that is divided into several sub-themes according to the suit of the card, for example:
1 = Time (Past, Present, Future, Eternity)
2 = Person (Adversary, Lover, Friend, Master)
3 = Element (Tool, Obstacle, Aid, Distraction)
4 = Fate (Doom, Victory, Loss, Death)
5 = Location (Home, Wilderness, Paradise, Hell)
etc. etc.
These themes might be too concrete, so you could use more abstract themes similar to Tarot Cards (Cards like Tower, Flower, Sea or Diamond could mean a lot of things, but contain some outlines to what the theme of the Dream is)
The cards could also have a number value similar to normal playing cards that could be used as a number randomizer whenever something like that is needed.
The system could work like this: whenever you start a scene, the GM draws a certain number of cards that determine the elements of the dream and the players or the GM determine what those cards actually mean. And whenever a more simple randomizer is needed the number values of the cards are used (whenever you would normally roll a die, you draw a card).
For example, the characters follow someone into a new segment of the Dream and the GM draws two cards and combines the themes to determine the nature of the Dream. The GM draws Death and Lover and determines that the characters appear on a bridge. As they continue their chase, the characters notice a woman standing on the side of the bridge, trying to gain the courage to jump to her death. One of the characters somehow recognizes the woman as a long lost lover (despite having no recollection of loving her before this encounter) and the characters have to decide what they want to do. Leaving the lover behind could have mechanical consequences (a loss of Ego for example), but letting the pursued NPC escape could have consequences to the overall story arc.
Of course, creating a whole set of cards would obviously require a lot of work (compared to using a Tarot deck or a normal deck of cards or just using dice). If using custom cards seems too troublesome, you can always use dice and tables just as well. (Cards are just cooler because they are physical things the players and the GM can fiddle with)
If you want to use stats like you described, one way of dividing them could be as follows:
Ego / Drive
Control / Vision
The stats on the top row represent things relating to the character. Stats on the bottom row represent the character's ability to influence the surrounding environment. Stats on the left column represent capabilities that are "acceptable" to the dream and are less effective. Stats on the right column represent capabilities that bend the Dream in ways that could cause a backlash from the dream (similar to what happens in Inception whenever the dream detects foreign elements within itself).
If you are open to other ideas, another way of thinking about stats could be to use something similar to the Ars Magica magic rules and have the characters possess skills like Create, Destroy, Change and Understand.
Overall, I like your concept and I hope this rambling gives you some ideas.
DarkHawkPro:
Have you ever looked into. Universealice??? I think with some slight modifications. Such as giving players a personal character who influences the world instead of a player being a storyboarder.
Buying potential based on ego/drive or control/vision.
Main GM can have greater veto power based on dreamscape.
I think it would give you more of the chaos factor your looking for.
Dreams and their manipulation have always seemed like a fun idea, but I've never put my mind to something beyond that. some creative re-working I think you could make it work quite easily.
szp:
Dang. I was gone from life for 5 days and that gave me a time to think things over.
On Ego & Drive -- Yeah, I did come to see that the distinction as is is just too vague. :s Still, I wanted there to be three concepts that provides foundation for a character. How I currently see it is that Ego covers self-statements where an adjective is the operative word and Drive covers those where a verb is the operative word. This is still a really vague distinction, but I think this reduces wiggle rooms enough -- the idea is that Ego is a more passive thing while Drive is active. Possessing Ego gives a psyche a "body"; Drive gives it energy to act; and Vision fuels it with willpower and want. That sort of thing.
Of course, I'll probably redefine this over and over again as I continue to add and refine stuff. Still, the criticisms given here helped me rethink this. :d
On randomizer -- You know, the cards idea really intrigues me. One idea I got right now is having a suit each for major primary emotions -- probably Fear, Sadness, Joy and Anger. I could tie this in with a concept I've refined over the downtime -- each point in a Confidence trait corresponds to a statement about the character, which amount to depict their self-image. Each of these Quality statements may be tagged with one of the four emotions. When the character enters into a conflict, a card from suit of the base emotion of the statement that dominates the triggering action is drawn. The "value" would be divided into a "mood map" combo, like "high energy-negative feeling" or "low energy-positive feeling". I guess that would mean a total of 16 cards... It could very well be replicated with 4 d4s, too.
I'd still have to think more about this, though. What I'm thinking is that whether Energy or Feeling resolves the conflict varies one case from another, though the other qualifies how that result was achieved (or perhaps whether the defending Quality becomes fragile -- a mechanic I'm still tinkering with.) Or, perhaps, it could be used to break a tie. In any case, I think this could provide a definite conflict resolution while also providing a narrative element... But there's probably something I haven't though about yet.
On resource-based system -- I had considered it, but I thought that it would require a system that isn't as fluid and mutable as the one I'm imagining at the moment. I expect stats to change every other action, depending on the actions of the characters. So, in a way, they already are more like temporary points than permanent stats in other games, I guess... Still, thanks for the reminder -- I'll revisit this when I change my mind about randomness.
Also: Thanks for all the comments! This is really helpful, especially since I'm not much used to designing games and such. :d
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