Virtual Experience
wholeridge:
With regard to the discussion of John Kim's "Story and Narrative Paradigms in Role-Playing Games"
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/archive/index.php?topic=8546.0
I wrote:
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Kim's description of the "Virtual Experience" player fits me very well. I care about story, but the story I care about is the one I experience. I think that this may go beyond RPGs into the way people enjoy fiction. When I read I like to identify strongly with a character, and my suspension of disbelief can be broken if an author tries to "improve" the story by making that character choose unjustifiably stupid or arbitrary actions.
And Ron Edwards replied:
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I suggest you open a thread in Actual Play to talk about that. I think you might be surprised at some of the local writings on the subject.
I started playing D&D in 1979, but hadn't played in recent years until I joined a friend's group a few weeks ago. I knew nothing of the GNS analysis until a few weeks ago, but since then I have read all the articles here and even followed the references to find other articles like John Kim's. There are more things I can say about my RPG background, and even a recent incident of actual play I can recount, but since neither are much related to my question above, I'll hold them for a follow-up post.
Please surprise me.
Dan Holdgreiwe
Jeff B:
Hi, Dan.
You and I started with RPG's in the same year, sounds like. That year I discovered the "blue book" of D&D, which ran about 50 pages. It was super-awesome (at the time). :)
After reading the post and the linked post, I'm not sure what your question is. Can you clarify as to the direction you want this post to go?
Jeff
wholeridge:
Did your Blue Book come with a set of dice like mine? I still have those dice, although their quality hasn't held up to the years.
I was "looking for discussion" because I didn't want to rehash things that have probably been beaten to death, and because I don't want to be an ignorant newbie throwing stones at years of hard work on Narrativist theory. Kim's model of "Virtual Experience" fits me not only as an RPG player, but also as a reader of fiction, which causes me to wonder how Virtual Experience as a Creative Agenda meshes with GNS theory? I regard simulation as a means rather than an end. The simulation has to be decent so that (1) suspension of disbelief is encouraged; and (2) character choices can be meaningful. We all stopped role playing as children because "Bang! Your dead!" "No, I'm not!" was not an adequate simulation, but making simulation a goal in itself seems to me to be absurd. On the other hand, what I have seen of Narrativism seems to me to be largely focused on Kim's "Collaborative Storytelling" model.
I guess my original question was something like "Can you show me where this stuff been talked about so I don't make a fool of myself (and offend people) asking stupid questions?"
Now I'll settle for "Does anyone have an opinion on where Virtual Experience seekers fit in the Narrativist world?
Jeff B:
The link to the original essay is broken. You included a quote from a discussion with yourself and Ron, but I don't see the thread that produced the quote. Or maybe my brain is in remission again.
God, the low-impact dice...over the years, my d20 wore smooth enough to roll all over the table and the floor for quite a while before producing a result. I still have a few of them hidden away, but using them would be like whipping out a walkie-talkie at a table of cell phone users.
If you can point me/us to the relevant essay or thread, I'd be interested to read.
wholeridge:
http://www.darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/theory/narrative/paradigms.html
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