No investigations? III (split)
Noclue:
If you put an NPC in front of the PCS with a big sign on them reading "open here to get info," they're going to start looking around for a can opener.
ADGBoss:
Quote from: Noclue on May 31, 2011, 08:02:51 AM
If you put an NPC in front of the PCS with a big sign on them reading "open here to get info," they're going to start looking around for a can opener.
I think this statement speaks volumes and it made me wonder at the validity of the entire discussion. Before I go further though...
-If the mods think this needs its own thread, that is no problem feel free to break it off
We have been talking about investigations but is that what we are really talking about? Let me give you an example of what I mean -
You are having intimacy issues with your partner. You sit down to talk and your partner mentions that you watch too much NCIS and you mention that you are tired of your partner talking for two hours on the phone with mom while dishes sit in the sink uncleaned... (after all dinner time is also NCIS time on USA). You make suggestions about rose petals and chocolate or perhaps making love while a Speztnaz Commando team has a knife fight with the Finnish Bikini team, but nothing seems to be working. Well come to find out intimacy is a symptom of a greater issue.
The more I read the various discussions on investigations the more it seems to me, that not only is it not really about investigations, but is actually all the old arguments coming to the front. By old arguments I mean, everything in the archives which honestly is just the latest set of data in discussions that have been going on for decades. No one in my group of fairly bright kids was interested in discussing game theory with a precocious 9 year old back in 1980, so I invented my own game to solve D&D's problems. Pommels & Paradoxes sucked (but I love the name) but it was a step. A step others were also taking even though most of us did not know it.
So again, I ask the question: Is this really about investigating or is it about something else more basic?
When we would write modules for Living Greyhawk, the authors and admins had a bit of a mantra we all used: Players say they want story but they really want is more stuff. I assume it was like that with Living City before LG and many of the contemporary and subsequent campaigns as well. Now the point here is not to trash players (as presumably we are all players as well as designers and game masters and theorists) but to point out that there is fundamental antagonism built into the role of player, GM, and game designer. Sometimes those of us who wear more than one hat can fall into different sides of the conflict depending on that hat, which is perhaps an entirely different discussion.
Okay so let me grab this back to investigation. In my head I am still coming back to the word integrity: we are wondering if an investigation in an RPG is a real thing or can be a real thing that has consequence for failure in the game or is it simply window dressing or a means to end for other kinds of conflict. Well I think the answer is: yes, it is both.
An investigation into a mystery or puzzle is still an investigation whether it is real life or a game. The means may be different (dice n Intuition vs. forensics n Intuition) and an investigation may be mostly for show even in real life, but I do not think the validity (which may be a better word than integrity) is affected regardless.
I do not think investigation validation is something that can be designed into a system. I think its validity is handled at the table level as I do not see a mechanic that can cross many or most systems being all the helpful.
A final word just to sum up my ramblings. I think if you were to take "conflict" or "conflict resolution" and substitute it for investigation in many of the discussions so far, I think you would lose little if no coherency. That more than anything suggests that perhaps investigation is not the issue.
Sorry for rambling, apologies if you feel I went off topic.
just my 2 lunars
Sean
D.R. Clifford:
I response to ADGBoss,
Nope, you post seems more or less in line with the actual thread topic to me. If anything I'm trying to actively derail things by (hopefully) moving the conversation away from, "What is a wrench, really, when you get down it?" over to, "Hey guys, I head this was a wrench store. I've got these bolts here that need adjusting, can anyone help out?".
I don't want or expect a catch all solution. I don't care if the outcome is genuine or controlled delusion. I would like to hear some techniques that have been used in the past (or may have not yet been tried) in an effort to simulate investigation across different genres and play styles.
Yes, this is about conflict resolution, but it's a particular brand there of specifically.
I would like to see a few different takes on (for example) how one might facilitate a fun Noir game juxtaposed with how one might facilitate a Scooby-Doo game. If the machinery already exists, mores the better, please point me to it.
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