[Game Chef 2011] The Daughters of Verona
Wilper:
Today I have gathered the portraits for the characters. I will have to crop and resize a bit, but I have the raw materials at least.
And I have thought a lot about the characters. how much to say about them, and how much to leave to the players.
I think I may have found a cover illustration as well, if I am to build a booklet of the rules.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lorenzo_Costa_003.jpg
fjj:
Quote from: Wilper on July 20, 2011, 11:07:30 AM
I have thought a lot about the characters.
Tell us more! Can you show examples of which options you are considering?
Looking for front page art sounds like procrastination to avoid addressing some central design issues :)
Wilper:
I wasn't searching for the front cover as such, more like I stumbled across it when I got the character illustrations. But I am guilty of avoiding design issues, I sat most of the evening yesterday testing various layouts of the character cards. :-)
Anyway. The characters in Shakespeare's plays (at least the comedies, I have not investigated his other stuff), are not that deep. They have a name, maybe one or two things they want (love, fame, wealth, a good laugh, whatever) and relations to other characters (the daughter of X, lover of Y), but no history. They are defined by their actions in the play.
If we compare with the characters in Montsegur 1244, we see that those characters also have a background that matters, the characters are defined by the answers that the story gives to the questions on the character sheets.
For my game. Is it enough to have a name, a picture, and a few relations to the other characters? Will that still work in play? Will players get good stories? Or do I need to give them desires and needs, background and fate?
I have a scene card analogy in my game. The Montsegur 1244 cards are rather explicit in the way they avoid directing the story (A dead horse. Rotten food. Pretty flowers on a meadow.), and they don't need to direct the story. The PCs have agendas and backgrounds that give them direction. But in TDoV the cards are actively directing the story (A letter arrives. Someone dresses like a man.), is that enough to get the story going and engage the players?
I could take a game with in the form of a single sheet of paper that has the single word "BOB" on it, slap it down in front of the crowd I usually play with, and they would make it work and play an awesome story. No matter what I do about the matter will they have fun with TDoV no matter what info I give them or withhold. But for J Random Indiegamer would he grook it? Would it be fun? Which would be the best?
If trad gamers, or even board gamers, found the game and were intrigued by it. What would they need to get good stories?
The likely audience is experienced Indiegamers, who would be introduced to the game by a real enthusiast who found it on the web after hearing chitchat on StoryGames. Or guests to the Indie Gaming Lounge, who would be guided through the experience by one of the "BOB"-players. But I'd still like the game to be playable by people who don't have the experience of many other "similar" games.
fjj:
Quote from: Wilper on July 20, 2011, 11:39:13 PM
Is it enough to have a name, a picture, and a few relations to the other characters? ... Or do I need to give them desires and needs, background and fate?
Giving each a desire, need or hope is a very efficient driver and it will help engage the players.
Quote from: Wilper on July 20, 2011, 11:39:13 PM
The Montsegur 1244 cards are rather explicit in the way they avoid directing the story (A dead horse. Rotten food. Pretty flowers on a meadow.), and they don't need to direct the story.
But in TDoV the cards are actively directing the story (A letter arrives. Someone dresses like a man.), is that enough to get the story going and engage the players?
The scene cards in Montsegur 1244 all contain a sense impression. Their main purpose is to bring details into the story (colour, depth). The cards you describe are more like story cards in Montsegur 1244. For a comedy, forcing the players to bring scene twists into the story sounds fun - but it will be a different economy than in Montsegur 1244. What about drawing them after each scene instead - and state that to play them as an interrupt, the element on the card must appear in the scene? Thus each player will have a secret hand to spring surprises from - and they must find creative uses for the cards they have in order to take control of a scene.
Quote from: Wilper on July 20, 2011, 11:39:13 PM
..."BOB" ...
What would you need if you play with a group of open minded players with whom you have not played before and where none of you are game master? How can you help the group creating a story that is motivating and engaging for all present? Where each player can bring their story juice to the table?
Finally:
Can you share some more details on the structure of the 5 acts? Will there be an overall story arc to direct the players?
Wilper:
Quote from: fjj on July 21, 2011, 02:00:45 AM
Quote from: Wilper on July 20, 2011, 11:39:13 PM
Is it enough to have a name, a picture, and a few relations to the other characters? ... Or do I need to give them desires and needs, background and fate?
Giving each a desire, need or hope is a very efficient driver and it will help engage the players.
Yes, I think so too. I'll just have to find how much I need to diverge from the source material to make a fun game.
Quote from: fjj on July 21, 2011, 02:00:45 AM
Quote from: Wilper on July 20, 2011, 11:39:13 PM
The Montsegur 1244 cards are rather explicit in the way they avoid directing the story (A dead horse. Rotten food. Pretty flowers on a meadow.), and they don't need to direct the story.
But in TDoV the cards are actively directing the story (A letter arrives. Someone dresses like a man.), is that enough to get the story going and engage the players?
The scene cards in Montsegur 1244 all contain a sense impression. Their main purpose is to bring details into the story (colour, depth). The cards you describe are more like story cards in Montsegur 1244. For a comedy, forcing the players to bring scene twists into the story sounds fun - but it will be a different economy than in Montsegur 1244. What about drawing them after each scene instead - and state that to play them as an interrupt, the element on the card must appear in the scene? Thus each player will have a secret hand to spring surprises from - and they must find creative uses for the cards they have in order to take control of a scene.
Yes, it will be different. I hadn't planned on making a Montsegur 1244 clone. It just happened by itself when I had begun I started drifting in that direction. :-) I don't know if I want Montsegur 1244 style scene cards. They were awesome for that game. But I imagine that TDoV will be played in various "settings", historical, present day romance or even Sci Fi. It will be harder to build decks that are generic enough to suit that, and I want to support that kind of play (One of the better games of 1001 Nights we played took place on a huge space ship, with an insane captain, and everyone were aliens made of liquid glass.).
Quote from: fjj on July 21, 2011, 02:00:45 AM
Quote from: Wilper on July 20, 2011, 11:39:13 PM
..."BOB" ...
What would you need if you play with a group of open minded players with whom you have not played before and where none of you are game master? How can you help the group creating a story that is motivating and engaging for all present? Where each player can bring their story juice to the table?
It would be storyjamming.
The BOB example might have been unfortunate. I'm just saying that I'm constantly torn between two different visions of how the game plays. First the one where the usual bunch of players gather, and then when a group of players with different backgrounds and agendas will do the same. I don't mind if they get a different experience, but it should still be a good experience.
Quote from: fjj on July 21, 2011, 02:00:45 AM
Finally:
Can you share some more details on the structure of the 5 acts? Will there be an overall story arc to direct the players?
The 5 acts will be very generic. The only given things are that there are lovers, obstacles to their love, and that there will be weddings and a feast in the end of Act V. I'll try to add some advice on what kind of stuff that would be appropriate in each act. But I'd like to avoid actual examples, to leave the field as open as possible.
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