War in the Heavens, early days, help needed
Zachary_Wolf:
Hey Jake.
I read all your entries on your design blog. I know one of the entries was older and you may have come to conclusions on some of these points, but here are some ideas that sprang into my head:
- FTL Travel: Consider the "Event Horizon" style FTL. The Event Horizon was able to momentarily bend space in half, causing a point in space that was 1000 light years away to temporarily exist only a few miles away. Sort of a different take on a wormhole - a singularity.
- Generation Ships: For history reasons, since earth is holy-grailish, consider the idea of the three factions originating as a fleet of generation ships fleeing earth. Midtrip, the three ships quarrel and decide to split up, going their own seperate ways. Just a thought. (Sounds like you already came to a similar conclusion).
- Size of Ship vs FTL Capability: There's no reason you can't just say fighters craft are built to be light and fast, and don't provide the hull integrity to survive a trip through a worm hole. Larger ships (Falcon, Serenity) have been specifically outfitted with heavier hulls capable of traversing a hole.
- FTL Communication: Definitely no interstellar instant communication, but intersystem communication might be helpful for narratives, even if it takes hours or days for a message to be sent.
Also, as for your reference to not wanting Vision to be so secular, I forgot to mention it doesn't have to have anything to do with religion. Each character will have varying degrees of devotion, so one character's Vision could be to become the most awesome pope evar, while another character might want to be reunited with his lost love. It's completely individual and not specifically tied to religion.
Daniel36:
I don't know if you have any experience with Warhammer 40.000, but they have some pretty cool religious themes you can draw inspiration from.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Emperor The Emperor of Mankind, revered as a god but nothing more than a vegetable. Pretty cool idea.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Primarch Then there are the Primarches, genetically engineered sons of the Emperor. Some cool inspiration there as well.
Anyways, I was thinking a bit more, and as Earth sort of disappeared off the map, why would they want to revisit it? So perhaps all of the major religions have religious texts. They could be about the New Earth or whatever, they could all stem from the same base religion but have all taken a very distinct different path within that and now they are like "we are the true church", "no, we are"... I guess Zachary_Wolf has the same ideas about that... but why did the war start now?
Maybe, and again just spurting out ideas, someone has re-discovered that Earth holds an item of immense power, a Relic so you will, that can give them the power to rule over the universe (and all other religions). Whether this holds any truth is of course irrelevant. It could be a good starting point for the war.
Zachary_Wolf:
Tagging along with Daniel's idea, what if the three factions had some kind of general peace amongst each other for a while, until a prophet emmerged claiming that the ancient world of earth would soon be discovered, and whoever discoveres it would rule all of mankind. This prophecy might spur the war that the game revolves around. The prophecy could have been spoken years and years ago and the war has just been raging on ever since. Maybe they'll never find earth and the prophet was just a kook? Just some food for thought.
Ron Edwards:
Hey guys,
Let's allow Jake to process through all the suggestions and figure out what he wants to do, before continuing to pile on inspiration. I greatly appreciate the enthusiasm being shown in this thread, and I'm not shutting down discussion, but let's slow it a little.
Best, Ron
gtroc:
Wow. That is a lot of interesting Ideas, thanks guys! It is going to be a while to process all of it, but here are my first impressions/thoughts on what you have said.
Quote from: Zachary_Wolf on August 18, 2011, 09:46:09 AM
Tagging along with Daniel's idea, what if the three factions had some kind of general peace amongst each other for a while, until a prophet emmerged claiming that the ancient world of earth would soon be discovered, and whoever discoveres it would rule all of mankind. This prophecy might spur the war that the game revolves around. The prophecy could have been spoken years and years ago and the war has just been raging on ever since. Maybe they'll never find earth and the prophet was just a kook? Just some food for thought.
Quote from: Daniel36 on August 18, 2011, 07:55:39 AM
I don't know if you have any experience with Warhammer 40.000, but they have some pretty cool religious themes you can draw inspiration from.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Emperor The Emperor of Mankind, revered as a god but nothing more than a vegetable. Pretty cool idea.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Primarch Then there are the Primarches, genetically engineered sons of the Emperor. Some cool inspiration there as well.
Anyways, I was thinking a bit more, and as Earth sort of disappeared off the map, why would they want to revisit it? So perhaps all of the major religions have religious texts. They could be about the New Earth or whatever, they could all stem from the same base religion but have all taken a very distinct different path within that and now they are like "we are the true church", "no, we are"... I guess Zachary_Wolf has the same ideas about that... but why did the war start now?
Maybe, and again just spurting out ideas, someone has re-discovered that Earth holds an item of immense power, a Relic so you will, that can give them the power to rule over the universe (and all other religions). Whether this holds any truth is of course irrelevant. It could be a good starting point for the war.
I had an idea of one of the interstellar nations run by an immortal god king type figure. I am currently calling him, Sovereign. I am leaning away from the helpless emperor from 40K and more towards something like His Shadow from Lexx, or The Master from Doctor Who. basically he maintains his immortality by changing bodies.
I really like the thought that the idea of Earth would be enough to spark a war. maybe they have long bouts of cold war. each side seeking to convert/control more systems through subtle means(missionaries, diplomats, and spies). then, when a new system is found the war heats up, as there is always the fear that the new system will be Earth. I also really like the ideas of prophesy. perhaps there are certain people who can see the future. they only appear once every hundred years or so, and maybe only to a specific culture/system. maybe they bargain the systems freedom with access to the prophets. I will definitely be working on that. as I think it is rife for player characters to play with.
Quote from: Zachary_Wolf on August 18, 2011, 07:11:15 AM
Hey Jake.
I read all your entries on your design blog. I know one of the entries was older and you may have come to conclusions on some of these points, but here are some ideas that sprang into my head:
- FTL Travel: Consider the "Event Horizon" style FTL. The Event Horizon was able to momentarily bend space in half, causing a point in space that was 1000 light years away to temporarily exist only a few miles away. Sort of a different take on a wormhole - a singularity.
- Generation Ships: For history reasons, since earth is holy-grailish, consider the idea of the three factions originating as a fleet of generation ships fleeing earth. Midtrip, the three ships quarrel and decide to split up, going their own seperate ways. Just a thought. (Sounds like you already came to a similar conclusion).
- Size of Ship vs FTL Capability: There's no reason you can't just say fighters craft are built to be light and fast, and don't provide the hull integrity to survive a trip through a worm hole. Larger ships (Falcon, Serenity) have been specifically outfitted with heavier hulls capable of traversing a hole.
- FTL Communication: Definitely no interstellar instant communication, but intersystem communication might be helpful for narratives, even if it takes hours or days for a message to be sent.
Also, as for your reference to not wanting Vision to be so secular, I forgot to mention it doesn't have to have anything to do with religion. Each character will have varying degrees of devotion, so one character's Vision could be to become the most awesome pope evar, while another character might want to be reunited with his lost love. It's completely individual and not specifically tied to religion.
Thanks for reading my blog. I appreciate your insights. As to the FTL issue, I am going with a gate system, build by an ancient and unknown/unknowable civilization. I like your thoughts, but I want the gates to be a mystery. I think that I will leave it as unknown how it works, all that is known is that it does work. I can't really give a reason for that other than personal preference. but your idea is neat. the generation ships are one thought, and I think there will definitely be some of that in the history, but i also really like cryogenics. I like it because it allows my Luddite civilization to exist, I know I haven't really talked of them but I have had this thought floating around for a while. basically Luddites decide to leave Earth. They use a ship and cryogenically freeze themselves for the journey. they manage to get past the technology use, justifying it as necessary. they come to an alien world filled with life, and manage to thrive. the first few generations are definitely into the full anti tech mindset. but little by little it gets subverted. they replace machines with domestic animals. eventually flying through space in designed organisms. they would be one of the small free states that the others must court. Generation ships will also work for some of the cultures.
I like your thoughts on durability and travel through the gate...that is a thought. also there is the idea I had about the gate driving you mad. basically pilots would either be insane to some degree or so drugged up that the are functionally insane for the trip. this would lead to fighter pilots not wanting to enter the gate. with no idea whats on the other side you would need your wits about you in a fighter craft.
Quote from: Zachary_Wolf on August 18, 2011, 06:03:17 AM
I like the idea of precreating some of the religions, but I thought your idea of giving the players the ability to create their own was awesome. How about this? Precreate two of the religions and the leave the third as "a mysterious newcomer". The third religion could be a burgeoning faith, small but powerful and gaining momentum. This way, the players have two 'stereotypical' examples, and if they choose to, they can decide to claim the third religion as their own and give it their own flavor. With two examples for potential religion builders to look at, this means you can trim down the amount of hand-holding neccesary for religion creation. In other words, you just say, "do something similar to the two examples above!" with some extra suggestive notes to inspire the players.
I love the idea of earth being the holy grail. Very cool, nuff said. Let me know if you want to collaborate a bit more closely on your game. I'm tired of working on games alone :)
I agree that it sounds awesome, allowing the players to build a religion. the reason I am leaning away from it for now, is that I have no ideas on how to implement that mechanically. basically it would be phase one of character creation, and that would be the seed that the characters grow from. but I am at a loss on how to do it. If I say to the players, "do something similar to what I have shown you." I will get one of two things, the players building a carbon copy of my religions, or the will get frustrated and give up and demand the GM do it. I realize there are some groups out there who can do what I want easily and well with no, or little, support structure. however, My current group is not one of them. And if I can't get my group to play...well there ya' are then.
I guess I would be open to the idea of working on the game with someone else. My past experiences have not been good. I have worked with partners before and it usually ends poorly. Hell, game design was what caused my podcast to pod-fade(not that that is a bad thing, it wasn't very good). But we could discuss our goals and see if they are compatible. if so I see no reason we couldn't partner up.Quote from: Ron Edwards on August 18, 2011, 10:05:46 AM
Hey guys,
Let's allow Jake to process through all the suggestions and figure out what he wants to do, before continuing to pile on inspiration. I greatly appreciate the enthusiasm being shown in this thread, and I'm not shutting down discussion, but let's slow it a little.
Best, Ron
thanks for looking out, Ron. I appreciate it.
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