War in the Heavens, early days, help needed
contracycle:
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I also like the idea of designing personal craft. I have issues with it on a personal level though. see I used to work as an fighter jet mechanic(F15E strike eagle), and when you mass produce an object for the military the closest to custom you can get is your name on the side. I realize that this is fiction, but I can't make my brain move that way and still feel right about it, if that makes sense.
Nah, that's easy. Even today we see the beginning of desktop CAD/CAM and 3D printing. In the reasonably distant future, the whole idea of "manufacturing industry" may well be redundant. It's easy enough to justify for your purposes, at the very least. In this scenario you have almost all design work done by tiers of machines, and all production carried out by local, on-the-spot assembly systems, which are themselves assembled for the purpose. This makes building a ship more like visiting a tailor and being measured for a suit than like building a factory and rolling out a batch of a particular design class. Also, this may play into your relighion theme because the lack of hands-on by human engineers may suggest that the tech is literally incomprehensible from a human standpoint, and only the machines really understand it.
Also, I caution against the idea of just saying oh yeah there are these gates and nobody knows how they work. I find that sort of thing unsatisfying in a SF setting, as surely one of the attractions of SF is to see science at play. I can provide some rough outlines for a gate system that is scientifically sound and also has some pretty interesting implications, if necessary. There are also discussion about on the web and science fiction resources in good old usenet, which can get pretty deep.
gtroc:
Quote from: contracycle on August 20, 2011, 08:11:11 AM
Nah, that's easy. Even today we see the beginning of desktop CAD/CAM and 3D printing. In the reasonably distant future, the whole idea of "manufacturing industry" may well be redundant. It's easy enough to justify for your purposes, at the very least. In this scenario you have almost all design work done by tiers of machines, and all production carried out by local, on-the-spot assembly systems, which are themselves assembled for the purpose. This makes building a ship more like visiting a tailor and being measured for a suit than like building a factory and rolling out a batch of a particular design class. Also, this may play into your relighion theme because the lack of hands-on by human engineers may suggest that the tech is literally incomprehensible from a human standpoint, and only the machines really understand it.
Also, I caution against the idea of just saying oh yeah there are these gates and nobody knows how they work. I find that sort of thing unsatisfying in a SF setting, as surely one of the attractions of SF is to see science at play. I can provide some rough outlines for a gate system that is scientifically sound and also has some pretty interesting implications, if necessary. There are also discussion about on the web and science fiction resources in good old usenet, which can get pretty deep.
When it comes to military action, uniformity is important. So the ability to make a unique craft is not the only aspect to consider.that is neither here nor there, as I mentioned this is a personal issue of mine. If I go this route I will merely try not to think about it, and put modifiable ships in it. I will think on your ideas though and may use them.
I am aware that there are scientific explanations for the Gates. the reason I want to avoid those are for story purposes. Mainly I want them to remain alien. If it can be figured out, then it can be duplicated. I will probably put three or for different explanations in the text and let the players think of it what they will.
contracycle:
Quote from: gtroc on August 20, 2011, 02:26:58 PM
When it comes to military action, uniformity is important. So the ability to make a unique craft is not the only aspect to consider.that is neither here nor there, as I mentioned this is a personal issue of mine. If I go this route I will merely try not to think about it, and put modifiable ships in it. I will think on your ideas though and may use them.
Well, thats true today, but it hasn't always been true and need not always be so in the future. Methods of warfare are formed from the technology with which they have to work, and science fiction by definition proposes different technology.
I mean theres nothing wrong with projecting a current or past set of methods into a notional future. The whole "WW2 in space" thing is pretty strong, for example, even if it makes no particular sense.
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I am aware that there are scientific explanations for the Gates. the reason I want to avoid those are for story purposes. Mainly I want them to remain alien. If it can be figured out, then it can be duplicated. I will probably put three or for different explanations in the text and let the players think of it what they will.
Oh its fine for something to be a secret. Although it gets a bit stickier if it also has to be a secret from the GM. There is also the difference between what the player understands and what the character understands, in the same way people playing in fantasy games don't usually allow the characters to make gunpowder, even if the players know the formula. But there has to be some level of understanding; what if someone in play tries to destory one? There needs to be some basis to determine how vulnerabel they are, or what happens afterward etc. Hence this sort of thing makes me uncomfortable, becuase in effect it punts the duty of figuring this out onto the GM, and that raises the question of why use, much less potentially pay for, someone elses game.
gtroc:
Quote from: contracycle on August 20, 2011, 03:08:09 PM
Oh its fine for something to be a secret. Although it gets a bit stickier if it also has to be a secret from the GM. There is also the difference between what the player understands and what the character understands, in the same way people playing in fantasy games don't usually allow the characters to make gunpowder, even if the players know the formula. But there has to be some level of understanding; what if someone in play tries to destory one? There needs to be some basis to determine how vulnerabel they are, or what happens afterward etc. Hence this sort of thing makes me uncomfortable, becuase in effect it punts the duty of figuring this out onto the GM, and that raises the question of why use, much less potentially pay for, someone elses game.
I think you and I are coming at this from very different directions. I am glad you are asking these questions, as it does force me to look at the reasons behind some of my creations. I am looking at making the Gates effectively indestructible and unknowable. I wil put forward several different, and widely divergent, theories as to how they work. If the GM wants to use ine of those as canon, that is great. If he wants to leave it a mystery, also great. I think you may be focusing more on the Science in Science Fiction than I am. I have a certain viewpoint on the Aliens who created the Gates. Namely that they are completely Alien, and cannot be understood. There technology would likewise be incomprehensible. The humans know how to turn it on, and roughly what it does. They do not know how, or why it works. I don't see the gates as being a central player focus. my game is about hot and cold wars over ideology. it is not about the physical sciences, and more about the social sciences. At least taht is where I am going with it right now.
contracycle:
Hmm, yes and no. I do look into the science in SF, but I'm not averse to the use of an SF setting used primarily as colour. But, if you're talking about conflict then sooner or later someone is going to wonder if they can isolate an enemy or disrupt their movement and supplies etc, so attention will turn to the gates one way or another. If at that point there is no solid info for the GM to go on, then the job of deciding whether these plans can work or not, or what happens when they are attempted, is left up in the air and has to be decided in each local game. I mean if nothing else if they are physical objects and not awesomely large, then they could be nuked. What happens to the gate at the other end, or the rest of the network? Could you physically tow a gate from one point to another?
As everyone knows, players don't stay on the straight and narrow. Some groups may be happy to just effectively ignore them, but many others, I would expect, will dream up some cunning plan sooner or later. Or GM's might want to for their NPC's. Something that significant is bound to attract interest. You can put a big "plot device - do not touch" stamp on it if necessary, but I for one wouldn't find that much fun.
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