[Föld] "moral inhibitions" system?
Cedric:
Hi all,
I am a french author (apologies for my english mistakes by the way) of a RPG universe called 'Föld'. In a nutshell, it's a frozen post-apocalyptic world where survivors try not to die to lack of food, climatic hazards or wandering demons. The big draw of this universe is to understand what the world is about and all its mysteries.
Lots of details about the universe can be found here, unfortunately in french only: http://valvolt.free.fr/fold
I tested the universe during a full LARP campaign (over 4 years) and I want now to adapt it to table RPG format. And to put in there all the concepts that were not working well in a LARP format, namely insanity.
When it comes to table rpg rules, I need my player characters to be losers - real losers. The players will actually see a lot of their characters die, I even consider generating them at random. However, unknown to the players, their characters will have something in common: they are chosen by demons, who will carry over some memories of previous characters to the new one. Namely magic powers.
That's for the basis. Now for my pondering:
As I said, PC are rather weak. None of them are heroes of legends nor do they want to become heroes. Namely, I want the characters to be full of social / moral inhibitions and of paralyzing fears. These guys should a priori not seek fighting and would even have difficulties to steal food even if absolutely necessary.
For this I thought about having special stats, related to such inhibitions. I could think of 2 so far: 'Courage' and 'Deception'. If you're low on Courage, you will not be able to use a sword. If you're low on Deception, your attempts at stealing or lying will be laughably easy to debunk.
The idea being that these scores go from 0 to 10. When a player wants his character to fight, he rolls 1D10. If he scores less than his Courage, his character fights. If he rolls higher, the character is paralyzed in fear, unable to even defend himself.
Now the player can chose to burn an XP (or a token or whatever) for forcing the character to fight anyway. If this happens, then automatically the Courage score goes up by 1, and the characters inherits a mental disorder (fear of the dark, bloodlust, anything appropriate). So in the end the characters can become good at fighting but will have serious mental injuries. Last, at the end of a session, XP could be used to heal some of these disorders.
That's it for the idea, now my issue is: 'what should be the caracteristics to use in order to cover characters' inhibitions and fears' ? Are 'courage' and 'integrity' enough? What is missing in this picture?
That's where I am now, I like to idea of characters not solving every problem with a bloodshed, that's my attempt at addressing this from a gaming rules perspective.
Would you know of any existing system already addressing this moral aspect? And how would you do it?
Last point: these mental injuries are necessary in the sense that the more deranged the character, the more he will master magic... But hush, that's a secret ;)
Cédric
Callan S.:
Hi Cédric,
I think your trying to create a leash.
The first thing I think you need are players who are interested in playing characters who are full of social / moral inhibitions and of paralyzing fears. Now it's easy enough for anyone to come to a game and play it like a boardgame, but coming to a game to play out a certain character type - on average people need to know in advance what type of character they should draw upon for the game in question. And if they can't think of one - they can't play in the game. I know this sounds ultra against gamer 'include everyone!!1!' culture, but really if you bring in one or more people who doesn't have a character in mind, they will play it like a boardgame. And so you bringing them in is you inflicting the problem on yourself.
The second thing is, you don't need a leash, you need a reward for people who play within the scope of play you aim for. The riddle of steel RPG is an example with it's spiritual attributes, which are player defined as to what the character cares about and every time they pursue these cares they get a bonus dice (important: even if they fail at the pursuit they get the bonus dice - if you only give it on a pass, you start pushing towards play to win boardgame play).
With the latter in mind, what are the players, via their PC's, trying to actually do? If it's just 'survive', that's kind of problematic in the key mechanic of getting the reward even if you fail - because the PC will be dead. Unless of course, the reward is simply passed on to another character. And though your kind of have that with the demons, it seems to be part of your theme. This reward mechanic is about rewarding the players only - it's not part of the game world, it does not represent part of the simulation or anything. It's entirely a pat on the back and empowerment of the player directly for giving a damn about their character(s).
That's one model of approach, anyway.
stefoid:
I guess the main thing is, are you trying to simulate what it would be like being a normal non-hero type of person in a terrifying situation, or are you looking to find the the answer to exactly what will make this person resort to fighting, stealing etc... the answer to that will influence your design.
Just off the top of my head, I think the "if you fight you have mental issues" is backwards.
People avoid fights because they are afraid of being hurt, and it sounds like you are not adverse at all to killing off PCs, so simply make fighting in your game incredibaly dangerous. these guys arent heroes - if they fight, there is a high probability of death. I think where the menal issues come in is when you dont fight. Would you abandon a comrade in order to preserve your own safety - guilt! shame!
Thriff:
Awesome idea Cedric!
Disclaimer: My girlfriend would only translate so much french for me, I wasn't able to read many of the details. Forgive me if I missed something vital.
Short:
1.) Your game doesn't feature rampaging demi-gods; I consider it a "low-potency fiction", a world where survival is a very real threat for PCs. Your description suggests that this game is not designed to breed optimism. Death, decay, and penalties run rampant and I like that.
2.) Violence isn't the go-to solution? Excellent. Remove the default dagger Dons "gift".
3.) Why only 4 health points?
4.) Why is the unconscious duration 3 minutes? Change this to a narrative quantity to promote fluidity over accounting.
5.) Why have you chosen the Gifts and Competencies that you have? My concern is that they are too restrictive. Can players customize or create their own?
6.) You mentioned characters receive injuries when they recover from unsconsciousness. That seems like a painstaking task to keep track of.
7.) Change your Inhibited Traits from Courage-Integrity/Deception to Welfare, Discernment, Fortitude.
Long:
1.) Low-Fiction Potency. Pure survival would be difficult to retain people's passion. I agree with Callan's comment in this regard. But I don't think that's what you intend the game to be about. Your Inhibited Traits are a very cool feature. I don't think it is a restriction on players, I think it helps build characters that are wary of the world. The spirt of spiritual attributes is retained here. This is a game of punishment and fear, not joy and rewards. The decision to break an inhibition carries a cost, and that cost becomes very real for the character. No they're not being rewarded mechanically, but they're impacted narratively--and that can be just as good if not better.
The necessity of a mental disorder is very cool, especially because you seem to have tied it into the mythology of the world. Perhaps a scale of 0-10 for the Inhibited Traits (and thus mental disorders) would result in too much mental paralysis. Perhaps decrease the scale to 0-6 or something. Or even introduce a disorder for every 2 points of an Inhibited Trait "IT".
The capacity to buy off mental disorders seems reasonable, but will it eventually dampen the mythology of your world (i.e. demons and magic)?
2.) Dagger Dons. Not solving every problem with bloodshed is a big plus from my point-of-view. But giving everyone free training in daggers seems counter-productive here. You don't want them to resort to knifing every problem away, then train them in knifing by default. House-wives, school-children, bakers, and politicians... they all know how to use a dagger?! I don't know why you chose to make "daggering" free, but I suggest removing this freebie. Grant another point somewhere else or force them to take a gift relevant to their position in life.
3.) 4 Health. Not a real concern, mostly just curious. Will this number properly mesh with the rules for conflict resolution? 4 seems too stringent...
This means (if I understand the nothing I know about your conflict resolution correctly) that a character can only fail 4 bouts before failing a conflict. The refresh rate for health will be very important here.
If characters go unconscious at 0 health, how do they die as you've said they likely will? Remember, death doesn't have to be the worst thing you can do to your PCs. Being unable to influence the fiction could be just as painful to the player without necessitating a full gauntlet of character creation again.
4.) 3 Minutes Unconscious. 3 minutes can be a lifetime if you've been knocked overboard an ocean vessel or if you're lost in a savage jungle; then again, 3 minutes is next to meaningless if a fever has knocked you out in your own home. Bottom line: 3 minutes seems very arbitrary--I would suggest using a narrative time-scale such as "until end of scene/conflict/turn". Unless, of course, you are striving for a numerical/mechanistic feel of doing the accounting for initiative and order or turns and actions per turn.
5.) List of Gifts and Competencies. I am wary of lists because they must be absolutely comprehensive for all situations yet distinct enough to be meaningful while also being organized in a reasonable fashion and then (likely) balanced out to not bias one over another. Lists worry me. So is there an important reason for choosing these exact phrasing for all Gifts and Competencies in your game?
I would suggest a system akin to "Fate" Aspects or Bonuses from "The Pool". Effectively the character writes down a sentence about their character and then makes a "trait" out of it. This method is very customizable so it allows players to plan for scenarios they want to involve themselves in while also negating the need for balancing because the PCs' "traits" will be so diverse as to be difficult to compare on a one-to-one basis. (Also check out Fate Points from Fate, Compelling Aspects is very interesting there: players/GM can elect to bring strife upon the character to allow them more influence on the fiction).
6.) Injuries I don't like lists, and I really don't like accounting. Keeping track of a broken left ankle, sprained right wrist, bruised third rib from bottom on left, and metal shrapnel in right shoulder doesn't sound fun. I have no idea how you were planning on dealing with injuries but such a feature strikes me (in principle) as more work than its worth.
Granted this all depends on the duration of the injury and the hurdles the PCs must complete to heal themselves. Personal taste suggests omitting such book-keeping.
Depending on the frequency of physical injury, a severity scale may work. Minor, Moderate, and Major. Minor fades at end of scene, Moderate persists until end of session, and Major remains forever.
7.) Inhibited Traits. This is what sparked me to respond. Courage and Deception seem workable, but they don't encapsulate the moral inhibitions that you wanted to enforce within your game. My alternate triad of Welfare, Discernment, and Fortitude is routed in ethics--specifically Plato's Four Virtues (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_virtues)--which allows the system to (by default) track moral strenghts and weaknesses. Note: I used these four as the foundation for my game's morality system.
I am assuming a system of 0-10 where the player begins at 10 and gains Virtue Points "VP' to decrease any one Inhibited Trait "IT". (Perhaps give 5 VP at character creation to be spent as desired across all 3 IT). If a situation arises that the character must overcome one of their inhibitions then they roll a d10 and must roll higher than their IT.
Of course a failed roll means the character is inhibited from acting in a Virtuous manner for that particular instance. The player can still elect to spend XP to deny the character's nature and proceed anyway--at the cost of decreasing their IT and earning a condition.
It makes sense to gain a condition for fighting back. Not because the character must have mental issues to fight, but because they gain mental issues by denying a life-time of conditioning to act unnaturally (for themselves).
Conditions will become a spotlight feature of this game, so it'll be important to properly phrase them, include them in the rules, and determine their narrative and mechanical ramifications.
Note: Rolling for a high number seems to make more sense from a psychological point-of-view "POV". Freeing your Inhibited Trait with Virtue Points also makes sense. I recognize your initial idea was to (I think) begin at 0 and move upwards attempting to roll below.
I suggest these 3 Inhibited Traits: Welfare, Discernment, and Fortitude are derived, respectively, from Plato's Justice, Prudence, and Fortitude.
Welfare regulates the PC's ability to make ethical decisions. Discernment accounts for a PC's ability to be aware of societal standards. Fortitude quantifies a PC's ability to persevere through adversity and balk at unnecessarily dangerous tasks.
More details:
Welfare
A character with an Inhibited Welfare Virtue would be petty and shallow or over-committed to a lesser good (as opposed to something significant or great). Such a PC is unable to sacrifice for the greater good. They would prioritize inconsequential goals such as personal financial profit, fleeting romantic interests, addictive substances, minor grievances with other people, earning fame, or pursuing irresponsible political goals. They would not have the best interests of others in mind. Note: A character with an Inhibited Welfare Virtue may be overly generous with their time and resources. Though they'd be a "nice" character, their Welfare would still be inhibited. Being over-generous can hamper one's ability to accurately perceive the "big picture" and important long-term goals.
One would require a low(er) Welfare value to donate to the needy, protect strangers (or even loved ones), sacrifice for the sake of the community, give up an addiction, swallow one's pride, forgive others, engage in meaningful romantic relationships...
Discernment
A character with a high Inhibited Discernment Virtue would be socially oblivious or close-minded. They would be constantly tricked/duped/bullied by others. They would say things at inappropriate times and fail to interpret others' desires and emotions. Conversations rarely go their way. Also, an Inhibited Discernment Virtue would result in a lack of knowledge about social norms such as dinner etiquette, proper titles for hierarchy, which area of the city to avoid, who to not piss off, what not to say when others can overhear you.
A character would an uninhibited Discernment Virtue to effectively barter, navigate courtly affairs, interpret veiled threats from others, recognize implicit offers or promises of allegiance, detect liars, not get kidnapped because they took the wrong path, and listen to advice of wiser people.
Fortitude
One would not be Fortitudinous if they procrastinated, gave up easily, or persevered to the point of obsession. They would rarely finish tasks, struggle to maintain relationships and jobs, and get in situations that they can't get out of. It is very important to note that Fortitudinous was chosen over "Willpower" or some such because Willpower is rather easy: "I'll just try harder!". But putting more effort into something isn't always the best solution--sometimes too much effort can be equally ruinous; thus the "perservere to the point of obsession" as being the quality of an individual with an Inhibited Fortitudinous Virtue.
A character with an uninhibited Fortitudinous Virtue would struggle through adversity when the reward outweights the risk and be able to give up on farfetched objectives and impossible tasks. They do not tire themselves out unnecessarily but they're ready to exhaust their reserves of willpower when something significant needs completing.
Note: Welfare is the "what am I willing to do?", Discernment is the "what should I do?", Fortitude is the "should I give up?"
Important: Your previous system of Courage/Deception would very often result in players losing their PC because their PC failed to protect themself. Granted you want a gritty fiction--that's fine. But I'd be pissed to keep losing PCs simply because they failed to put something between them and imminent danger such as a person/creature/environment. Especially when they have the Dagger Gift!
This new morality-founded system is not designed to hinder a PC from protecting themself. Consider the difference in gameplay.
Sample:
Scenario: Your PC and another player's PC are searching for treasure in a wolf-infested forest. You've been granted seniority and all decisions rest on you.
Old: Courage- I failed the roll. My character trembles uncontrollably, failing to raise his rusty sword or second-hand shield before getting sliced open by the wolf's fangs. Great. New character. Again.
New: Welfare- I failed the roll. My character doesn't go help the friend in need. He narrowly manages to kill the attacking wolf as I run for safety. Now there's strife between us; this causes deception, treachery, and eventually a plot to rob/kidnap/murder me! I could smooth this over with my companion if I choose to (unlike the Courage situation).
New: Discernment- I failed the roll. My decision for us to swim across the river because wolves can't swim has gone disastrously. They can swim, and apparently faster than us. We survive, barely, and are now stranded without food or shelter.
New: Fortitude- I failed the roll. The treasure is close. But a pack of wolves are closer. I should give up and head home to safety, but I'm too stubbourn for that. Now my leadership has me and my companion stranded in wolf country despite the many (furry fanged) obvious reasons we shouldn't be here.
I like the feeling of "burning your own bridges" these morality-based IT encourage. It seems to align with the punishment of this harsh world. The PCs are actively making decisions that will only later come back to haunt them--as opposed to dying (as I suspect Courage would likely result in more often than not) or Deception (which seems limited in applicability).
Summary:
Tired. That was long. Hope it helps.Great idea, interested in learning how this system develops.
I like the harsh world, tease of mythology/demons/magic, the system for gaining disorders by acting unnaturally, and the low-potency fiction.
Why can everyone use a dagger. 4 health, 3 minutes unconscious and will the gifts/competencies be comprehensive enough to account for all situations without being too similar or biased? How does conflict resolve?
I suggest 3 Inhibited Virtues (changed from Inhibited Traits as an afterthought) of Welfare, Discernment, and Fortitude.
I recognize the titles will change when translated. Btw, your English is strong so no need to apologize for that.
T
Cedric:
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