decoupling Reward Systems from broad-scale Story Arcs
Callan S.:
Quote
Do you know any games that help a group communicate in that respect in the way Todd describes?
I would think you just need to point them to a document in advance that outlines it (even just pointing to this thread or the story gamers thread). And the important thing is, if they haven't read it or don't agree with it, they can't play. Sure, it'd be better to have it in the book and they have to read the book (and either agree or don't play), but hey, were a bit of a makeshift hobby still, that aint so bad, is it?
I've got an uncomfortable itchy feeling though, that you mean a text that lets anyone sit down, but it magically turns them around into wanting, at that very moment, to do participationist play. Every single time. No bad ralroad games (just good ones). No 'ostrification' needed. Works every time.
Can't be done.
David Berg:
Callan, I agree with your takes on both options. I'm looking for a third option, though. Not a game that will make everyone want what it offers, but a game that can deliver on what it offers for those who are interested.
A document that says, "Players, here's what you need to know up front about what the GM will be doing," is but one component. Rules that make it easy for the GM to create those parameters and for the players to take meaningful action within them would also be required.
stefoid:
Quote from: David Berg on October 18, 2011, 03:15:09 PM
As for the genre sim angle, Eero and Steve, I know plenty of games that support that by modeling fictional causality in genre-apt ways, but I don't know any that say, "If stabbing that guy right now would be good for the movie, we don't care how good you are at it or how difficult it would be." If Wushu or FATE do, please let me know; I haven't played either.
Oh right, Ive never played Wushu but I dont think that it does what you said just then. It apparently gives you over the top bonuses for contributing over the top fictional means of achieving something (mostly oriental martial arts style achievements) - so you get rewarded for fictional style contributions in the form of increased chance of success. but yeah, now that you have explained yourself as in teh above quote, thats not quite what you are talking about.
I guess actually Ingenero has some element of what you are talking about above, as the game is split into two phases - story phase and challenge phase. During story phase, the emphasis is not on whether the PCs can achieve something in a success/fail way - there is no formal conflict resolution mechanic used in that phase. The emphasis is on the complications and consequences that result from PC intentions.
So if the PC wants to stab the guy in Story phase, well then by golly, stab stab, hes dead. No rolling, no skill checks or whatever. In challenge phase, however, if a PC's stated goal is to kill that guy, then the focus is directly on "can he do it?" using conflict res mechanics etc...
with Ingenero, though, whether the stabbing occurs in story phase or the challenge phase is not the decision of the GM, but through players explicitly stating their character goals. If stab-guy is turned into a goal, then the GM must consider it challenge phase when that scene is close to playing out. If stab-guy is not an official goal, then PCs are free to stab away during story phase.
So... it depends what you consider as 'good' for the story. Ingenero's view is that the players define the important thigns with their character goals and that these should be played out using conflict res mechanics and have no predetermined outcomes. Whereas other things can be 'pushed through' during story phase to keep the story moving ahead.
David Berg:
I just realized that my "communicate in this way" phrasing was misleading. I didn't only mean "spell out the framing of the activity" (vital as that is); I was also thinking more like, "sustain this type of inter-player interaction thanks to the game system".
stefoid:
huh?
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