Looking for suggestions on "against the odds" style game
dindenver:
Shimera,
You might want go look at FATE or Solar system. In fate, you have to use prep and teamwork to overcome tough opponents. For instance, in the last Dresden game I ran, I wicked a leprachaun on the players. The first setup.an ambush by creating aspects for.later use, then some players did maneuvers that gave other players a big enough bonus to overcome their defenses. It was really neat for me to se, because this group does not always do well in the think first/team play.
The interesting thing about solar system is that the conflict rolls are super simple, until the players backs are against the wall. The benefit of this is that you don't really use the same rules for PC vs Kook combat. And it is also a way for the players to.signal to.the GM that the current conflict is not significant to them.
There are probably other systems that meet these criteria, but these ar the two I thought of when you said it.
Shimera9:
First off, thanks for the feedback. I'm actually getting close to working out chance mechanics now. I'm just fleshing out the "heroes can push the odds when they need to" mechanics. After than I'll have to decide if I want the cards or dice route for my randomizer. I've done some initial math and have a good idea of the probability curve I want, but I'll put that up in a later post.
David,
I've actually been toying with some similar mechanics myself (http://dancingchimera.wordpress.com/2011/11/17/against-the-inevitable-threat-pools/, http://dancingchimera.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/against-the-inevitable-breaking-down-the-walls/). Essentially, I've got the nemesis side starting with a large threat pool which can in turn be invested in obstacles. The heroes thin out that pool by taking down those obstacles.
Threat can also be invested in an obstacle to improve it's abilities as needed. This potential creates an interesting tactic where the heroes "feint". The way it would play out is the heroes attack an obstacles strong point to get the nemesis side to invest more in it. There's a good chance they'll fail in that first assault, but the heroes are resilient so they may fall back and try again from a better angle. By hitting the strong points first they draw more threat into the obstacle so they make more progress when it's actually defeated. This actually makes, "fail then win" a valid tactic from the heroes side.
As for the Neutral side, I'm thinking they should mostly support whatever results make for the most entertaining story. Since they're not set to "win" in a traditional sense, they should be free to go with whatever appeals to them. This matches them up nicely to act as "fickle fates" or "lady luck" in game world terms.
Dindenver,
I did look at FATE for this. While there's definite appeal in some features I'm looking to go a bit more free form and less structured with my character traits. In short, I'm more likely to borrow things like Aspects and less likely to use things like the skill pyramid. The pyramid does help characters grow organically, but I'll have to mull over whether it allow for fast character set up.
I'm started looking into Solar system. I've got some familiarity with the Shadows of Yesterday game it's based on, and have had a lot of fun with offshoots like Lady Blackbird. I may borrow some elements from this side after I've dug through it more.
As far as I know neither system has built in mechanics for supporting that "lurking menace" feel, so even if I go from one of those as a base I'll need to add that system.
David Berg:
So, looking at it from the Heroes' perspective, what's the incentive for feinting now and then overcoming later, as opposed to just overcoming (with or without feinting) now?
Given your aims for the game's arc, I assume you'd want a very strong incentive here!
Shimera9:
The feinting tactics basically plays off the following:
Threat can be invested in obstacle to either improve it's traits or make it more persistent.Obstacles with boosted traits are significantly harder to overcome when those traits apply.Each trait usually applies to a limited range of challenges.When an obstacle is removed, the nemesis side loses most of the threat invested in it.
So let's say the heroes take on a threat directly. The nemesis side could decide to pump it's traits, making it difficult to score a victory on that challenge. However, in doing so, they've raised the amount of threat that will be lost when the obstacle is overcome.
The heroes can play to this by setting up a challenge where the nemesis side will want to spend threat buying traits for the obstacle. If they fail the first challenge, they can try setting up a secondary challenge where the traits purchased in the first challenge don't apply. The nemesis side will then have to decide if they want to sink more points into improving the obstacle's traits or if they want to leave the an opening for the heroes to win out. The nemesis side can keep trying to block the heroes, but eventually they'll run out of threat. The heroes will likely also be building up their own resources in this time, so they will eventually break through one way or another.
I'm also planning on making "can not retry this challenge" a common price of failure, with retries as a possible reward. As such, when heroes fail they'll often need to change their tactics.
I'll admit I currently don't have anything keeping the heroes from immediately starting their secondary challenges. Forcing the heroes into a new scene does seem like an appropriate reward for the nemesis side when they win a challenge though.
On a side note, I'm currently looking into reward mechanics for both sides. For the heroes, thing like moments of characterization might help fuel their ability to push for long shots later. For the villains, things like being the kind of enemy the players lover to hate might help them survive or otherwise mitigate the results of the heroes' victory.
David Berg:
Quote from: Shimera9 on November 25, 2011, 08:39:45 PM
they can try setting up a secondary challenge where the traits purchased in the first challenge don't apply.
Ah! Now I get it.
Hmm. That doesn't seem to me like it would feel like a desperate struggle against the odds. It seems like it would feel like a strategic grinding down of a reactive opponent. I guess it depends on how much risk there is of the strategy not working out, and also the costs.
Quote from: Shimera9 on November 25, 2011, 08:39:45 PM
Forcing the heroes into a new scene does seem like an appropriate reward for the nemesis side when they win a challenge
Yeah, I think some sort of consequence is crucial. In addition to "you can't just try again", I'd want something to make sure the loss felt like a loss to the heroes. Maybe a menu of options including the sorts of things that directors use to put heroes through the wringer in action movies? Stuff like:
home destroyedloved one killedstatus ruined (job, bank account, innocence in the eyes of the law, etc.)gruesome injurywitness to something awful they couldn't prevent
As for the rewards, I like your line of thinking. I think it'd be especially cool if those achievements could be measured via fictional outcomes rather than just through votes or fanmail. Like, "prove you really hate this villain by spending your resources against them rather than some other equally valid expenditure". But that may just be my personal taste.
Ps,
-David
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page