How to enjoy Story Before without Participationism
Alfryd:
Quote from: Josh Porter on December 16, 2011, 10:22:08 AM
Now I should also clarify the scene I transcribed in which my character was having a secret conversation with another sasquatch. The character spying on my was not an NPC, but another player character.
Okay, my mistake. I had assumed that the GM had at least the modicum of respect for character autonomy necessary to not dictate your own actions to you or other players. Hence, my assumption some GM-controlled 3rd party responsible for tattling.
Callan, there's a crucial difference between the GM's behaviour here and Josh's behaviour. Josh, I presume, does not seize control of NPCs and dictate their responses to his character. Josh cannot easily hide critical information about his character's actions from the other players. This is nothing like a reciprocal exchange of responsibilities. This isn't even Illusionism, because the GM can't be bothered to even maintain the pretence of PC autonomy.
I take it, from this conversation, that Casper's player was more-or-less okay with not announcing this secret to the rest of the PCs? Maybe you could ask the other players how they feel about this kind of treatment?
Josh Porter:
Callan, with regards to this point here:Quote
Maybe that's not the case at all, but like I raised before on thinking about the play you want/how you would structure play you want, it's worth thinking how you'd do it - and whether that'd be different from how this GM does it?
As far as this piece is concerned, when I GM games I strive to make every roll the players make shape the story. I suppose I am far more in the camp of "GM's world as a vehicle for the characters" in that case. It might be because I'm lazy as a GM, but I've never run a Story Before game, with the exception of a D&D module. If you're curious, you can check out this thread about the game I'm currently working on.
I see your point, but I guess I'm just not terribly sympathetic to it, as it's never a style of GMing that's appealed to me.
David Berg:
Hi Josh,
If you are trying to get the most fun you can out a situation that really isn't conducive to the kind of fun you prefer, I suggest looking for an entirely new way to enjoy it.
For example:
Embrace the dark side and help the GM run the railroad. Look for whatever the GM wants to make happen, then jump all over that and invest in it and make it meaningful to your character. Put yourself in position to act as a plant. Or maybe you don't event want a player character! Ask if the GM wants help with anything; offer to play some NPCs or whatever seems fun to you.
Yeah, these are all hacks, and simply playing a different sort of game would be better... but if you can't achieve "different game" by talking to the players directly, you sure as hell won't pull it off through playing your character in a way that grinds against what everyone else is doing. All that will ensure is that no one has fun.
That's what I've experienced, anyway.
Josh Porter:
Quote
Embrace the dark side and help the GM run the railroad.
Boom! That's the kind of thing I was looking for! Each session I've tried a slightly different tack in playing my character, trying to get the most out of the game. This one might do the trick. Now I've just got to to up my clued-in-o-meter to try and see where we're headed. I'll try this next session and see how it works out. I guess this is just Participationism at its core, but hopefully it will speed up the action. I think this has been said before in different words, but for whatever reason this made it click.
Incidentally, I don't think I've necessarily been going against what everyone else is doing. We all seem to be stumbling around attempting to find out where we're supposed to go in the GM's plot. We're all trying to get to the interesting stuff and have fun being caught up in our characters. I think that may be why the GM seems frustrated at the end of each session; we're not picking up on what he wants us to do quickly enough. If I can get my mindset switched to "see where the GM wants us to go" mode, I think it'll help. But I still want to invert expectations every once and a while. It's just more fun to go outside the box sometimes and think of creative solutions to the same problems. Just without trying to actively take the game outside the Story Before script.
And Alfryd, to respond to your earlier question, yes. Casper's player was indeed more or less OK with keeping the conversation under wraps for a while. I think we both wanted to see where it went while keeping an open secret on the table.
Alfryd:
Quote from: Josh Porter on December 16, 2011, 06:02:03 PM
Incidentally, I don't think I've necessarily been going against what everyone else is doing. We all seem to be stumbling around attempting to find out where we're supposed to go in the GM's plot. We're all trying to get to the interesting stuff and have fun being caught up in our characters. I think that may be why the GM seems frustrated at the end of each session; we're not picking up on what he wants us to do quickly enough. If I can get my mindset switched to "see where the GM wants us to go" mode, I think it'll help. But I still want to invert expectations every once and a while. It's just more fun to go outside the box sometimes and think of creative solutions to the same problems. Just without trying to actively take the game outside the Story Before script.
And Alfryd, to respond to your earlier question, yes. Casper's player was indeed more or less OK with keeping the conversation under wraps for a while. I think we both wanted to see where it went while keeping an open secret on the table.
Cool. Well, if helping to drive the railroad is what you'd like to do, well and good... but, going by what you've said, what gives you the impression that you should neccesarily be conforming to what the GM expects, rather than having a discussion about what the group as a whole wants, and adjusting the GM-ing style accordingly?
I had assumed that you were the minority report here, because otherwise... well, why would the group put up with this GM? But going by your description, the other players seem to be more on your wavelength, and no-one- including the GM- is 100% enjoying themselves because of that. Pushing the railroad might work, but that's not your only option.
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