How to enjoy Story Before without Participationism
Josh Porter:
Awesome. There's some really good discussion going on here. Thanks, folks!
Joywriter, your advice with regards to the GM using compels is spot on. It's so obvious that I don't know why I didn't think of it before (especially after nine months of Dresden GMing). I will make sure to mention it to the GM.
Frank, I appreciate all your input. It's some really good insight into the way SBP should work. The only problem I see in this particular situation is that a) the GM doesn't think he is running an SBP game, and b) the players (with the exception of me) don't think he is either. Among the various things I've chatted about with the GM, one of them is the way he is specifically using the prep tactics in the DFRPG book to create his plot. In other words, he's linking character aspects to come up with ideas and creating scenes around them, without creating endings to those specific scenes.
The problem is, he doesn't have the tools to implement them within his GM experience without falling back on what works in primarily SBP games (D&D, Shadowrun, etc.). So we're left with a conflicting set of expectations between the GM and the players. Now the one time I tried to bring up the whole Story Before thing with him, he vehemently denied it. He also has some (mysterious) issues with the Forge as well, so trying to use any terminology or game theory just kind of sets him off.
So I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not disagreeing with your posts at all. I'm just not sure they perfectly apply to this situation. Which is why I'm trying to "get on board" with the Participationism.
Alfryd:
Quote from: Frank Tarcikowski on December 21, 2011, 09:41:20 AM
Well, if I interpreted correctly, Josh made those "perfectly good reasons" up on the spot because he was annoyed by the GM's spoon-feeding techniques and wanted to derail him.
Amen for the second paragraph, though. This whole "good role-players don't use OOC knowledge" stuff is just bogus.
- Frank
The impression I got from Josh's account was that there were pre-established reasons/background-lore to suggest that Yetis don't appreciate being sought out at all, which is a valid motive for Lloyd not to share such info with the group. (Of course, wanting help with a difficult search could also be seen as a valid motive for sharing such information, but that merely makes it a 50/50 chance for IC decision-making to go either way.) So while Josh's OOC motivation- wanting to strike off alone- certainly influenced the decision, the premise wasn't exactly fabricated on the spot.
In line with your advice to ensure that 'mission hooks' are tuned to the PCs' background/motives, the GM here apparently forgot that, while Lloyd had good reason to go on this mission, he had equally good reason to not invite anyone else.
Frank Tarcikowski:
Hey Josh, I haven't read the DFRPG books but if your GM really believes he is "linking character aspects to come up with ideas and creating scenes around them, without creating endings to those specific scenes", when in fact he's a case of chronic breadcrumb syndrome, then all the emails and talks in the world will do no good. He is hearing the words but he just cannot imagine the thing they describe. I've experienced this kind of fruitless conversation first hand. It's always hard to let go your good old group with all your best friends, but many of us have gone through it, me included, and now I'm afraid it's your turn.
- Frank
Josh Porter:
I don't know if the future is quite that bleak.
I'm positive that the GM is learning new things from running DFRPG and that he is attempting to develop his skills in that department. He's also asked the advice of a couple of the players with regards to making this game work. I think there's room for growth there, and I'm going to try and facilitate it as best I can. That may mean sticking the game out through some sloggy sessions, but I can see it paying off in the end. If I can make him want to play more indie games through this experience, I'll come out a winner.
Callan S.:
Josh, could he make you want to play more trad games and grab onto his story hooks and engage (as he puts it, whatever that means) rather than do indie games? Don't expect to have more influence over him than he has over you. He's not your student (and doesn't know it yet....dang, have I been on the pointy end of that one before!)). I think I've noted your both alot alike - that causes alot of trouble when you both think you can make the other guy do stuff in a non-reciprocal way.
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