[Steampunk Crescendo] Out on a limb
dindenver:
Dave,
Is "to defeat the Antagonist" a perfect Goal or a horrible one?
I don't want to say it is a horrible one, but it would be pretty bad, because a Goal needs to take at least 4 steps to accomplish and an Antagonist can be defeated in one step.
Am I probably going to have to choose, at any given moment, whether to pursue my Goal or my fight vs the Antagonist?
Players are able to pursue the Antagonist, their Goal or both at their discretion. The only limiting factor might be the particulars of the scene they are in. but that is merely a limit of how creative you can be, not a mechanical or social contract one.
What problem does your game solve?
Well, this is the problem, I know what it solves, but I don't know how to describe it without sounding like every RPG designer ever.
This game lets you gain power without leveling up, it lets you change the setting in a way that matters to you and it provides a real 'punk dystopic setting to do it all in. You can redeem yourself, your antagonist or even the whole world.
Does that sound good? How can I punch it up or open it up to a wider audience, or make my audience notice it among the sea of other RPGs?
Dan Maruschak:
Quote from: dindenver on January 25, 2012, 01:39:14 PM
it lets you change the setting in a way that matters to you and it provides a real 'punk dystopic setting to do it all in. You can redeem yourself, your antagonist or even the whole world.
Dave, I don't know that this will be helpful to you or not, but this strikes me as a contradiction. If the world is fixable it's not a dystopia, is it? The combination of the gonzo "dirigibles with howitzers" stuff with the broody stuff is hard for me to wrap my head around, too. (This is part of the reason I was turned off from your game way back during the game chef playtest: I thought it was about morally conflicted people being crushed under the boot of society, but in play it seemed like you were most excited about an experience like the Van Helsing movie that had none of the elements that I thought were supposed to be interesting in the game).
David Berg:
Quote from: dindenver on January 25, 2012, 01:39:14 PM
Players are able to pursue the Antagonist, their Goal or both at their discretion. The only limiting factor might be the particulars of the scene they are in. but that is merely a limit of how creative you can be, not a mechanical or social contract one.
Huh. Well, then, I must admit that I'm confused by the AP experiences you report. I figured maybe folks were whiffing on Goal-seeking because going after an Antagonist was easier or more fun or something. I was wondering if perhaps "design your character to crush a specific enemy, then go out and do that" was a huge part of the game. I mean, that sounds fun to me, and fairly unique (Misspent Youth sorta does that, but in a different way).
This isn't a Game Development thread, and you didn't list the Antagonist factor among the stuff that's most important to you, so I'll move on. Just wanted to toss it out, though.
Quote from: dindenver on January 25, 2012, 01:39:14 PM
This game lets you gain power without leveling up, it lets you change the setting in a way that matters to you and it provides a real 'punk dystopic setting to do it all in. You can redeem yourself, your antagonist or even the whole world.
Hey, I like that! Except for the "without leveling up" part.
I think this describes both the fictional content and the activities of play in a pretty appealing fashion: "Gain power and bring meaningful change to a punk dystopia! Will you redeem yourself, your antagonist, or the whole world?"
The next thing I personally would want to know is something about system and social form. Lite/crunchy, cooperative/competitive, make stuff up/problem-solve, etc. What skills are demanded of me, and how will I be relating to my fellow players?
Then logistics: duration, number of players, age.
Depending on the answers to these, they could be folded together into a single pitch or presented separately. I'm not really sure what's ideal on that front. "A creative, collaborative roleplaying game. 3-6 players. 2-4 hours." -- that might cover it. But if you have something more interesting to highlight about the gameplay, that might be preferable.
Do I work together with my fellow players to change the dystopia, or do we just take turns pursuing individual changes separately?
What do I have to be good at in order to do well at this game? Math? Strategy? Acting? Authoring? Convincing? Humor? Listening?
The more distinctive the answers, the better! If it's just "you have to have a decent imagination and be able to portray a character" then that can go down in the hierarchy.
So, here's a stab at it:
Steampunk Crescendo
Future nightmare or better tomorrow?
Gain power and bring meaningful change to a punk dystopia! In a land of vampires, magic, and super-science, to what will you aspire? Will you redeem yourself, your antagonist, or the whole world?
Collaboratively define the world as it is, and then author the personal quest your character will undertake to change it.
A roleplaying game for 3-6 players. ~4 hours.
Quick-to-learn, quick-to-use ruleset.System gracefully resolves player/GM conflicts.Characters improve and change while you play.Gripping stories and engaging tactical combat.
What do you think? A step in the right direction?
dindenver:
Dan,
I appreciate the feedback. Believe it or not, your feedback was some of the most valuable to my original design.
If the world is fixable it's not a dystopia, is it?
Typically, PC Goals have been more personally oriented and less fixing the world. Even some of the really big Goals have been about fixing a small part of the world. I saw opening Orphanages, Creating a safe enclave for vampires and wiring the Bronx for electricity as some of the biggest changes players tried to affect with their characters. I think the world is still a dystopia, even if all three of those are realized, no?
As to the juxtaposition of Dark and Brooding setting vs. Player Empowerment. I hear you. And it was a design issue, I really struggled with. In the end, there are limits on what the PCs can do, but it is up to the group to acknowledge, use or obey those limits. When I GM'd I pretty much followed the players lead and when you played with me, out group was in a pretty over-the-top mode. Sorry if that ruined the experience for you. The reality is, it is a tough balance to allow the characters to be vampires, Mages, inventors and more (possibly all at the same time) and say, but don't get carried away. So, what I did was put tools the GM can use to create boundaries and guidelines for their players but then try not to overemphasize them so that the GM does not see that as "the game."
I did credit you as a playtester and give you a thanks in the credits and I do mean it, your help was invaluable, thanks again Dan.
dindenver:
Dave,
Thanks for brainstorming with me, it is REALLY appreciated.
I figured maybe folks were whiffing on Goal-seeking because going after an Antagonist was easier or more fun or something.
yeah, this is an accurate assessment, players that didn't go after their Goals were ones that either did not take initiative, or were having mroe fun doing something else to remember their Goal.
Lite/crunchy, cooperative/competitive, make stuff up/problem-solve, etc.
OK, I am always bad with Lite vs. Crunchy. Personally, I don't care and I have a lot of tolerance for crunch. Plus I have played some old school games that really raised the bar on what is "crunchy."
I would say it is less crunchy than Dresden, more so than InSpectres. It would fall into a similar category as Dogs in the Vineyard in that the mechanics matter, but there is no real way to "game" them.
What skills are demanded of me, and how will I be relating to my fellow players?
So, skills that players need:
Tactics, the way dice are used, you will either need a mind for tactics or be willing to take help from a fellow player that does. There are not maps and figures, but I have fond players that don't like "tactics" can be overwhelmed with the dice mechanics at first.
Narration, you need to be comfortable setting scenes, you will be doing that in play. And there are cases where you as a player has a lot more authorship than usual. These are rare, but if you do
Planning, you need to be able to figure out at least 4 discrete steps in your Goal if you want to pursue them.
Creativity, the scene framing and character narration is divided more evenly among players. You will need to be able to improvise based on actions taken by other players and the GM in order to tie what is happening with what you want for your character.
Duration, number of players, age:
I think 3 hours is probably the minimum to get anything out of this game. A 6 player game where each character achieves at least one Goal would take about 30 hours. As to age, I am bad at this, I know I have had 15-year olds play. There is not a lot of mature content and the math is pretty simple. Maybe 13 and up? I know this works with 3-8 players. I am not sure if it works for one-on-one. Not sure it would though.
Steampunk Crescendo
Future nightmare or better tomorrow?
Gain power and bring meaningful change to a punk dystopia! In a land of vampires, magic, and super-science, to what will you aspire? Will you redeem yourself, your antagonist, or the whole world?
Collaboratively define the world as it is, and then author the personal quest your character will undertake to change it.
A roleplaying game for 3-6 players. ~4 hours.
Quick-to-learn, quick-to-use ruleset.
System gracefully resolves player/GM conflicts.
Characters improve and change while you play.
Gripping stories and engaging tactical combat.
Great start!
Maybe:
Steampunk Crescendo
Bring meaningful change to a steampunk dystopia! In a land of vampires, magic, and super-science, to what will you aspire? Will you redeem yourself, your antagonist, or the whole world?
The Mastermind will make an Antagonist that you and your friends will work together to defeat! What will you do?
A roleplaying game for 3-6 players. 3+ hours.
Quick-to-learn, easy-to-use ruleset.
Conflicts are resolved using a map-less tactical system.
Solid and compelling setting with room for player customization.
Characters improve and change while you play.
Events unfold in a compelling and logical manner.
Is that any better?
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